ogre optimization

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Zonk
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm

Re: ogre optimization

#16 Post by Zonk »

GlassGo wrote:They say that Ogres can complete Anti-magic quest.
Yes, and apparently there's even some special flavour text for it. Basically: it's quite unhealthy for Ogres to take this path, as they are very magical creatures, so it's going to shorten their lifespan.

Anyway, I know Ogre Sun Paladins are amazingly fashionable, but what other classes are Ogres good at? And I don't mean just because of the 2h wielding thing, although that of course must be considered.


Also: am I the only person who thinks it's a shame that the 2h thing will be wasted if you play a Brawler? Because Ogre Brawler seems like it made sense, you even start Big.
ToME online profile: http://te4.org/users/zonk
Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system

grobblewobble
Archmage
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Re: ogre optimization

#17 Post by grobblewobble »

Zonk wrote:Anyway, I know Ogre Sun Paladins are amazingly fashionable, but what other classes are Ogres good at? And I don't mean just because of the 2h wielding thing, although that of course must be considered.
When you do not make use of the two-hander special ability, Ogres are a good generic race. Long term, they're a better Cornac. Because the 4th racial skill includes (but is not limited to) gaining an extra inscription slot, which is everything that Cornac ever gets. And Cornac is considered good..

Compared to Cornac, long term you get the same advantage, but with 4 additional generic abilities on top, as well as extra hitpoints.

GlassGo
Uruivellas
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Re: ogre optimization

#18 Post by GlassGo »

Zonk wrote:
GlassGo wrote:They say that Ogres can complete Anti-magic quest.
Anyway, I know Ogre Sun Paladins are amazingly fashionable, but what other classes are Ogres good at?
Well, right now I'm see no problem with Time Warden Ogre on Nightmare.
I even beat Dark Crypt with him on Nightmare.
What's left - beat two filthy mage, so if I don't do anything stupid like Farportal 7 times to meet shar'tulians. )
English isn't my native language.

Atarlost
Sher'Tul Godslayer
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Re: ogre optimization

#19 Post by Atarlost »

grobblewobble wrote:
Zonk wrote:Anyway, I know Ogre Sun Paladins are amazingly fashionable, but what other classes are Ogres good at? And I don't mean just because of the 2h wielding thing, although that of course must be considered.
When you do not make use of the two-hander special ability, Ogres are a good generic race. Long term, they're a better Cornac. Because the 4th racial skill includes (but is not limited to) gaining an extra inscription slot, which is everything that Cornac ever gets. And Cornac is considered good..

Compared to Cornac, long term you get the same advantage, but with 4 additional generic abilities on top, as well as extra hitpoints.
The big Cornac advantage is that a lot of classes have a locked level 1 category with an important mobility or durability talent like rush in combat techniques or time shield in spell/temporal and cornacs can get them early where other races have to delay to level 10 and that in turn delays their advanced category unlocks.

Ogres, on the other hand, have an inscription advantage. I think that's going to be better in the long run than the oversized weapon. The power penalty is really painful for everything except melee where the 120% strength mod offsets it and the off-hand proc power reduction and skill point requirements really hurt.

I think Wyrmic is the only class that really benefits from going two hander and shield. They have the perfect combination of size relevance, attacks that use melee damage and therefore get that 120% strength mod, attacks based directly on a stat rather than mindpower, and multiple unlocked combat style trees.

Oversized weapon Sun Paladin is seriously overrated. The build doesn't even start to come together until quite late and there just aren't enough talent points to do it without short changing something important. Running a sun paladin and NOT using an oversized weapon may be a good choice. Weapon of Light's extension of shield durations synergizes well with the ogre racials.
Digitochracy
n. 1. technocracy. 2. government by the numbers. 3. rule by people with the longest fingers.

Sirrocco
Sher'Tul
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Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:56 am

Re: ogre optimization

#20 Post by Sirrocco »

grobblewobble wrote:
Zonk wrote:Anyway, I know Ogre Sun Paladins are amazingly fashionable, but what other classes are Ogres good at? And I don't mean just because of the 2h wielding thing, although that of course must be considered.
When you do not make use of the two-hander special ability, Ogres are a good generic race. Long term, they're a better Cornac. Because the 4th racial skill includes (but is not limited to) gaining an extra inscription slot, which is everything that Cornac ever gets. And Cornac is considered good..

Compared to Cornac, long term you get the same advantage, but with 4 additional generic abilities on top, as well as extra hitpoints.
Part of the point of Cornac is that you get that without the generic investment. Cornac is for the builds that really crave generics elsewhere. Given that the "just like a cornac" effect from ogres costs you a minimum of 8 generic points (7 if your first skill comes free)...

Dual-staff reavers really like ogre because it seriously simplifies gearing. My guess is that you might be able to do interesting things with a staff-and-shield swordmage as well, though I'm less confident about that. Bulwark is also a pretty obvious one to try, though, again, I'm not totally sure about it. Doesn't one of the new demon-based classes use shields?

OrionJAnderson
Halfling
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Re: ogre optimization

#21 Post by OrionJAnderson »

Ogres have huge base Hp and various ways to get use more inscriptions more often. That means they're a good choice for classes that have poor HP or that rely on inscriptions to survive because they're generics have insufficient defense and utility. Consider an ogre Corruptor. You have 13 LR to a shalore's 9, and you can sink points into more casts of your shields, wilds, and phases instead of into curses.

Ramidel
Cornac
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Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:53 am

Re: ogre optimization

#22 Post by Ramidel »

Another thought: Ogre Arcane Blade.

Arcane Blades have a use for an extra cat point (and thus the free inscription), but they have better things to do through levels 1-9, and they don't have too much going on in the generics department. Plus, HP and inscriptions are good (and Aegis has synergy with shielding runes). The ability to two-hand-and-shield is something I'd skip on this build, though.

OrionJAnderson
Halfling
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Re: ogre optimization

#23 Post by OrionJAnderson »

I'm doing well with my ogre alchemist. It's boring as hell, but effective. Huge HP and enough free strength to buy into mail armor early. The strength even gives me a little physical power to boost early staff bolts. The gem bomb spells average your spell power with that of the gem, so if I feel like I need a shield then the pain is mitigated. I wouldn't necessarily equip a shield by default but it's nice to have the option in case I need more resists.

Faeryan
Sher'Tul
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Location: Finland

Re: ogre optimization

#24 Post by Faeryan »

Just confirming the fact you can go Antimagic with an Ogre. Zigur will be available for you despite having the racial skill and after AM you can Invest on other skills, you just don't get to use tier 1 active skill anymore.

As for the issue of wanting to go AM with an Ogre since you lose the skill, I think the empowered infusions make up for it.
Stronk is a potent combatant with a terrifying appearance.

Ramidel
Cornac
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Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:53 am

Re: ogre optimization

#25 Post by Ramidel »

Copying thoughts over from my character report, I'd like to also suggest that Ogre and Corruptor have very strong synergy. As I put it in that thread, this build is essentially the Ogre acting as a Bigger Badder Cornac, providing an extra cat point (which was already earmarked for an inscription slot if you're a Corruptor - you're cat-starved with that class), a useful racial tree for the unused generic points, and a nice chunk of extra HP. Inscriptions with quick cooldown (because Corruptors are crit machines) are also useful if you need to deal with status effects (something that Corruptor has no tools of its own for). Staff-and-shield isn't really as useful (though at some points a good shield has its uses).

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