Reworking Chronomancy ver 2

[0player]

Okay, edge2054, sorry for fangirling, but what just happened deserves attention (maybe it should be fixed? idk), here's a link: http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=41925 to a thread of a glorious event on the second test character, in which he faces down his alter ego and gets all of the achievements for hitting hard.

Okay, detailed feedback is later in the post, the linked thread is so much of the reason why I love the new TW.

I just hit level 12 with a horribly planned, anemic, paper-thin build that's all over the place. Mind you, this is entirely my fault, and not the fault of the TW class; although I've had trouble with being defensive, and the class isn't tanky, anomalies are very powerful and give me a lot of control capability.

Here's what I remember about my talent allocation: about to max out Strength of Purpose, a point each in Impact & Weapon Folding for the extra damage, a point in the first blade combat talent (the one that can inflict blind, confusion or stun, I don't recall the name), 3 or 4 points in Trim Threads, which I use with Disentangle as my main offense & Bias Weave set to Temporal for the combined utility of damage, buffs, and control. My first cat point went to unlocking Temporal Hounds, for no reason other than that the idea tickled my fancy.

I'm playing the class a lot like a caster, albeit a caster with pretty strong melee capability thanks to that one talent whose name I can't recall, and a few sustains, and it's incredibly fun, and incredibly rewarding. Congrats, edge, you've designed something beautiful!

This sounds a lot like my current build, although I forgone the use of hounds for more AoE provided by Threaded Combat, and I got last Blade Threading for "another free random teleport that is also one-target nuke" and Singularity Arrow for pulling them together to trim properly.
The lack of defense is covered by heavily tapping into Spacetime Folding, two points in Premonition which I turn on before every fight (suck it, Heightened Senses!) and Fate Spinning + Thick Skin for delicious all resist.
Honestly, the addition of Trim Threads helps early game a lot, as the lack of any AoE was very noticeable before.
Also, having the "kill brittle clear ooze" button is always nice, seeing as my last pre-rework TW fell prey to them .

[edge2054]

Hounds!! Sweet! Thanks rex Darkgod said you and him would figure out the animations

I'm glad you guys are having fun. I saw your other thread this morning 0player

I got some ideas for an alternative defensive/healing oriented talent tree for PM:

Induced Phenomena:

1. Reverse Causality (or Reverse Entropy)
Instant, any damage/debuffs dealt/applied to the player during the last X turns are undone.
This would be a unique type of "heal" in that it does not actually heal you but simply makes detrimental things that happened to you in the recent past un-happen. Maybe this could also restore buffs that where dispelled during said time, though not those whose time ran out naturally. It sounds powerful since it can heal you full easily and remove all kinds of debuffs, but that is only if you use it in time. Wait too long and this spell will not do much good for you.

2. Singularity
Active single target debuff. X% of all damage of creatures recieved in radius X will be transferred to this creature for X turns.
Alternatively or maybe additionally, X% of the damge recieved by the player will be transfered to the target regardless of distance.
This spell could be used both offensively and defensively. The offensive part could be quite overpowerd for nuking down single strong enemies so the damage transfered from enemies in radius X could be kept moderately lower, while the damage transfered from the player could be a bit higher. Also it may be better to have the players recieved damage be transferred regardless of range because it would otherwise potentially mean forcing a caster into close range in order to increase survivability which is... paradoxical.

3. Cosmic Cycle
Sustain, creates a cosmic cycle with radius X around the caster. every creature within the cycle deals X% less damage and/or has their physical and temporal resistance reduced by X%.
Every X% anomaly chance reduces the radius of the Cycle by 1 (lowering paradox and thus anomaly chance will increase the radius again). Every time a creature leaves the cycle (through death, banish, movement or the cycle getting smaller) you get a stacking buff that will increase the damage/effectiveness of your next anomaly by X%.
The basic idea here is that the cycle expands and contracts with the rising and falling of your paradox. Giving you bonuses for enemies entering the cycle which will make you want to use a lot of spells resulting in your paradox raising. Then the contraction of the cycle giving you different bonuses which will make you want to reduce your paradox again, maybe through anomalies. Killing and summoning within the cycle may also give special buffs (because creation and unmaking are part of the cycle). The buffs/bonuses given by the cycle could also be survival oriented if that is needed more.

4. Living Anomaly
Passive or maybe sustain, every point of paradox increases your resist all by 0,02% and your resist all cap by 0,01%, Every time an anomaly fires off you get a direct heal (life regeneration or damage shield may also be considered). there could be a cooldown on the healing or some other mechanic to limit it. The resist values are of course only examples and can be subject to more balancing.
This would be something that increases your survivability even at normal levels of paradox but expecially as you get more desperate and rise your paradox to high values. To also give an incentive to go back to normal again you can trade your increased resistance for a more restoring kind of survivability as you reduce your paradox again. The higher your paradox is, the greater the heals are you get when reducing it maybe.

I'm looking at this tree now and here's what I'm thinking.

Cosmic Cycle - Sustain that grows and contracts based on current paradox. If the cycle is in a contraction phase enemies within deal X% less damage. If it's expanding you deal X% more damage to them. These debuffs would be handled by a special timed effect that I'd use for tracking some other stuff in the tree. The sustain radius would update every 100 Paradox with a minimum of 1 and a maximum of 10. The timed effect applied would depend on rather or not the Cycle is in an expansion or a contraction cycle (did the radius grow or shrink last time it updated.)

Reverse Causality - Activate to set your life as it was X turns ago (this value will be tracked by Cosmic Cycle). You must have Cosmic Cycle active to use this talent. Using this talent puts Cosmic Cycle into a contraction phase. I'm not sure how to handle the timed effects part as just overwriting timed effects from a save point could cause issues with temporary effects being removed properly (i.e. not getting removed at all). I may have it add X turns to beneficial effects (if cosmic cycle was expanding) or reduce negative effects by X turns (if cosmic cycle was contracting).

Singularity - Activate to transfer a percentage of all damage dealt within the cosmic cycle to the target (Cosmic Cycle debuffs would handle the tracking). If you cast this on yourself you transfer a percentage of all damage you receive onto every target within the Cycle. You must have cosmic cycle active to use this talent and casting it puts your Cycle into an expansion phase.

Living Anomaly - Passive. When you reduce your Paradox you gain a Damage Shield equal to X% of the reduction (probably well over 100%, Paradox reductions aren't very large anymore). Anomaly% * X% chance of causing a random offensive effect when you damage enemies within the Cosmic Cycle with a spell (this is basically a proc on spell hit with a chance based on current anomaly chance, for effects I was thinking temporal chain lighting would be a fun one, not sure what else, but I'd like to have about four different effects so they're somewhat randomized).

Thoughts?

[Parcae2]

That sounds awesome! One thing to bear in mind when balancing the numbers is that, generally speaking, reducing enemy damage is far more important than increasing your own. Players are going to be doing their best to keep Cosmic Cycle contracting as much as possible.

[jotwebe]

So you'd have a defensive and an offensive buff, and either adapt your play to the tides, or use the 2nd and 3rd talent to help things along? Very interesting. Reminds me of the concept of kairos, which is pretty fascinating.

Kairos (??????) is an ancient Greek word meaning the right or opportune moment (the supreme moment). The ancient Greeks had two words for time, chronos and kairos. While the former refers to chronological or sequential time, the latter signifies a time lapse, a moment of indeterminate time in which everything happens. What is happening when referring to kairos depends on who is using the word. While chronos is quantitative, kairos has a qualitative, permanent nature. Kairos also means weather in both ancient and modern Greek.

I could imagine tracking the various timers into a horrible chore if they aren't somewhat accesible via the tooltips - for example Reverse Causality could display possible life values if it is used in the next X, X+1, X+2, X+3 turns in the talent description, Cosmic Cycle could tell you the turns remaining on the current cycle at present Paradox on the tooltip...

Singularity: I suppose this would be actual damage (after shields, resistances, and so on) - there'd be a synergy withing the tree with Reverse Causality, talent wise with Preserve Pattern and Invigorate, also healing and Heroism, but not with shields, defense and Displace Damage? Probably tricky to balance, especially with NPC damage/health values out of whack compared to the player's. See Martyrdom, problems with it.

Living Anomaly: Name-storming for the effect: Temporal Discharge, Potential Equalization, Cosmic Harmonization. Mix and match. Also, extra effects...

• Living Warp Hole: Target turns into a living warp hole: pulls everything in radius X inward, when something is pulled into it's square it reappears randomly in radius Y, physical damage is dealt to both the "hole" and the pulled victim, increased if the pulled one is larger than the "hole"
• Phase Interference (Temporal): Victim gains X% physical resistance, but has its temporal resistance reduced by Y% the amount, getting hit by temporal damage (maybe above a certain amount) will switch the effect to Phase Interference (Physical), which, yes, you guessed, is the same but with physical and temporal damage types reversed. Maybe only one switch per turn, maybe grant some temporal destabilization
• Phase Alignment: Removes (or maybe adds, but then the damage should go up) some temporal destabilization and does 50/50 temporal/phys damage in radius X based in part on the amount of temporal destabilization the target has
• Primordial Light: A flash of light from the target, lighting up the floor and randomly dazing or blinding
• Matter Accretion: deals X% of original damage as physical, heals targets in radius X for X% of the damage done, with temporal resistance and affinity added to the heal mod
• Redshift: targets in radius X take temporal damage modified by their global speed, get slowed
• Blueshift: same as Redshift, but slow targets take more damage, and targets' global speed is boosted (but their temporal resistance lowered?)
• Void Expansion: shatters walls around the target

[Suslik]

Edge, don't forget about the visuals. I have finished a shader that can be used for multiple defensive/augmentation effects but it needs really tricky textures so it'll take some time with rexo to make it useable. I also remember that you need a black hole/singularity effect and you can count on me at this - I did not have enough time to start working on this one but it's pretty technical(I mean it just takes time to implement, nothing too complicated). If you have other skills that need unique visuals please pm me skill description and your ideas on how it may look. Any references from other games/photos/pictures are always welcome.

Unfortunately I have a very busy summer and cannot properly dedicate myself to shader magic but I will have some time starting from 26th of july and way more time starting from september so sooner or later I'll make the shaders. Rexorcorum did not have too much time for me lately either(looks like he is occupied with either irl stuff or dg is whipping him for something secret) - hope things will change as well.

[Kiba333]

Sounds pretty good. When i got to the idea of cosmic cycle i also quickly noticed that it has so many possibilities that it deserves a talent tree dedicated to it.

My thoughts:

-Cosmic Cycle
I don't think i am sure i understand how your contraction/expansion phases work:
1. Will the cycle be at range 10 when you have 0 paradox and at range 1 when you have 1000?
2. Or will it change into "contraction mode" once you spend 100 paradox and keep contracting until you lowered your paradox by the appropriate amount, at which point it will switch to "expansion mode"?

If number 1 is the case i could see a problem in the fact that 300 paradox is the desired floor value with wich you run around constantly. This would mean you'd by default be down to range 7. If you manage to stack willpower and items with paradox-willpower and use temporal form you can be well over 1000 paradox at 0% anomaly chance (in the old system at least). Maybe cosmic cycle contraction should only kick in once you reach paradox values which cause you anomaly chance >0% and the cycle should be in constant expansion when at anomaly chance 0%? Alternatively the max range could scale with your willpower, this would offset the range reduction of having high paradox all the time.
Whether number 1 or 2 is true it might be difficult to balance the factor of the cycle having a useful radius during normal gameplay. As far as i recall the tree was meant to be devensive/healy, but the cycle is by your description definsively useful only in the case that it is contracting. This will force the player to move in on the enemies in order to keep the defensive bonus. Moving towards the enemies (potential suicide) would be the only way since switching to expansion mode turns off the defensive bonus. But maybe i'm just too greedy for constant defense so please ignore this concern of mine if it overly violates balance.
I am looking forward to the visual of the cycle though. I am hoping for something really cool, maybe along the lines of this or better. Also the animation of the cycle could change it's rotation direction and/or color based on the phase it is currently in.

- Reverse Causality
A problem i noticed that could arise is the following: Let's assume RC sets your life to the amount it was 4 turns ago. 5 turns ago you had full health (100%), that turn you took heavy damage though, so during turn 4 you were down to 20%. by the time of 3 turns ago you had used some kind of heal and brought yourself back up to 100%. This would mean that using RC right now would bring you down to 20% health (nearly kill you) even though you where at 100% health during the last 3 turns. Tracking how much health you had exactly X turns ago is pretty much impossible for the average player making this spell a bit too much of a gamble for a heal. A fix for this would be "Activate to set your life to the highest amount it was at during the last X turns"

-Singularity
What you did with it i like very much . My only gripe again is my (unfounded?) fear of cosmic cycle being at a very low radius during endgame or heavy anomaly play because of constant high paradox.

-Living Anomaly
Also sounds pretty good and is pobably much more balanced than my initial idea.
I am short on ideas for the anomaly procs though i got another one for the cycle itself just now: You can reach cycle radius 0, meaning your tile is the only thing in the cycle. At radius 0 your next spell "X" /any spell/anomaly/or whatever triggers a BIG BANG!, expanding the cycle massively and wreaking all kinds of havoc.

[edge2054]

I picture Cycling going like this.

The radius will be based on your current Paradox divided by 100 (so radius 3 at 300 Paradox). Additional talent levels might add radius. Maybe at tl 3 and 5 the base radius goes from 0 to 1 and 2 respectively, or radius 5 at tl 5 and 300 Paradox. Either way the max would be 10 radius.

The player learns Cosmic Cycle and it goes into its default mode (probably contraction). You fight for awhile, your Paradox goes over the threshold (400 we'll say) and it expands, switching to expansion mode and increasing the radius up to 4. The player just lost the defensive bonus but has gained the offensive bonus and now has to make a choice, do I want to dip my Paradox down now with some kind of Paradox reduction talent so I get my defensive bonuses back? Or do I keep fighting with my increased damage?

Let's assume the player keeps fighting. Monsters die, player survives and rests. Resting will generally reduce Paradox so the player goes back into a contraction cycle and is ready for the next fight.

Using particles to signify what type of cycle sounds like a great idea

On Reverse Causality. I was going to track the health on the Cosmic Cycle sustain. I think this would be fairly easy to do. And I can display that on the Causality tooltip.

[Parcae2]

Sorry for derailing the conversation for a moment but is there a way I can download the most recent Warden fixes?

[edge2054]

If you're on windows I would download

http://sourceforge.net/projects/gitextensions/

Set..

git@git.net-core.org:edge2054/t-engine4.git

as the remote repository

And then pull or clone, whatever option it gives you.

Once it's pulled copy and paste all the files that aren't in a folder from one of my earlier posts (all the .dll, .exe. etc but not stuff like bootstrap, game, build, etc.)

The paradox_mage branch has some changes to TW stuff too as I go through things. The master branch is pretty close to being up to date with Darkgod's master branch.

[malboro_urchin]

I'm trying that now, and it's asking me for a password.

[edge2054]

Hmm.. maybe try darkgod's repo.

There's some instructions here. You can ignore the command line stuff. git extensions does that for you.

But darkgod's git address is in here. I don't see anything about a password (but the old svn username/password I believe was guest/guestor)

http://te4.org/wiki/Source_Setup

*edit* Or maybe try my other address

http://git.net-core.org/edge2054/t-engine4.git

I may have given you the push address :/

[malboro_urchin]

Hmm.. maybe try darkgod's repo.

There's some instructions here. You can ignore the command line stuff. git extensions does that for you.

But darkgod's git address is in here. I don't see anything about a password (but the old svn username/password I believe was guest/guestor)

http://te4.org/wiki/Source_Setup

*edit* Or maybe try my other address

http://git.net-core.org/edge2054/t-engine4.git

I may have given you the push address :/

The latter address you gave me is working! Excite!

I tried Git Extension and it gave me so many problems. The first several installs kept telling me the command to run git wasn't configured correctly or something like that. When I actually got it to work, I had no idea where to go to clone a remote repository. I actually found the git Bash command line easier, which is unusual for me.

Anyway, let the thread resume!

[IejirIsk]

@kiba with the reverse causality (the return to health) simplist sounding fix for it, is to make the 'record' function instant. balancing would have a hay day, but seems the easy way to fix the problem of getting gibbed then storing health. heh. I can just see going from eidolon plane to full health + lives cause of this XD

[ghostbuster]

Displace damage can cause problems when two fighting chars have it.

tome-1.2.3-1405594166-1.png (144.08 KiB) Viewed 3610 times

And only a part is displayed here. Indeed the game stalled for 10 seconds when this happened, and the log is full of displacement notices.

Probably, damage below a given value (1?), should not be displaced.

[IejirIsk]

Oh what a tangled web you weave?