Suggested new summoner melee tree damage calculations

[marvalis]

Tweaking the melee tree damage formula:

* Old formula (example): This formula give stats depending on willpower and talent level. It gives your willpower * talent master at 5 class points. For example, 60 willpower and 1.3 master will give you 78.

Code: Select all

str=25 + self:getWil() * self:getTalentLevel(t) / 5

* Lets add some damage depending on talent but not on willpower to reward early game class point investments: This will give up too 5 * 2 * 1.3 = 13 extra stat points.

Code: Select all

self:getTalentLevel(t) * 2

That gives us:

Code: Select all

str=25 + self:getWil() * self:getTalentLevel(t) / 5 + self:getTalentLevel(t) * 2

* Now finally, we need to add some damage relative to your level. We will also factor in willpower and talent level. This will give 1.3 * 1 * 1 * 30 stat points at level 50 with 60 willpower. That gives 39 extra points. I used 30, but any number can be chosen instead (lower or higher depending on the need).

Code: Select all

self:getTalentLevel(t) / 5 * self:getWil() /60 * self.level/50 * 30

That gives our final formula: 78 + 13 + 39 = 130!

Code: Select all

str=25 + self:getWil() * self:getTalentLevel(t) / 5 + self:getTalentLevel(t) * 2 + self:getTalentLevel(t) / 5 * self:getWil() /60 * self.level/50 * 30

/edit I removed some of the stupid things I said below about jelly not immobile. It should stay immobile . All that really needs to be done is make damage scale better with level.

[paboperfecto]

I am running a summoner now and am getting close to level 40, I'll expand on these ideas as I get further and try some of the harder areas.

I'd be careful about adding anything to Minotaur, with stun and confusion already they're already pretty handy. I'd worry that adding more attacks would make them less specialized...I already want them casting confusion first thing and adding another possible attack could dilute that.

Golems have Unstoppable which is pretty sweet, but they don't seem to use it as much as I would want them to. It might be nice to add rush in there. I tried to pull up my logs to see what damage my golem was doing to Fyrk but I had restarted the game since I whooped him. I'll look at some logs and see what they are doing compared to minotaurs when I tag team again.

Currently the melee summons are perfect for pinning enemies in place while the distance summons go all out on them, I'm not sure if this is what you are trying to change. You should have seen the helpless look Fyrk had on his face (in my head) when this weak human walks in and then suddenly he's facing a hydra doing ~300 damage a turn but has to turn his back to a minotaur and a stone golem to get to it.

[Sirrocco]

I'm not going to say that the jelly couldn't use a boost, but the whole point of the jelly is to have an immobile summon. It seems like it would flow better to give it some other buff.

[lintofdeath]

I can't comment on the formulae, but wanted to chime in that I agree that immobility is the whole point of the Jelly because: blocking a passage or path is pretty frequently a lifesaver, but more importantly you want it to stay and gather enemies around it for when you Detonate it. I say more importantly because in my experience I already use other creatures to block passages, most notably the Hydra. That said, I would say that it should be easier to detonate the Jelly. Right now it seems like you need line of sight, but it would be great if you could click the Jelly in the party window to make it go off. Of course, I haven't played Summoner since the party window came into existence, so maybe it already works that way and I'm just talking out of my arse

The idea of having it deal damage when it gets hit is kinda neat though.

[marvalis]

I can't comment on the formulae, but wanted to chime in that I agree that immobility is the whole point of the Jelly because: blocking a passage or path is pretty frequently a lifesaver, but more importantly you want it to stay and gather enemies around it for when you Detonate it. I say more importantly because in my experience I already use other creatures to block passages, most notably the Hydra. That said, I would say that it should be easier to detonate the Jelly. Right now it seems like you need line of sight, but it would be great if you could click the Jelly in the party window to make it go off. Of course, I haven't played Summoner since the party window came into existence, so maybe it already works that way and I'm just talking out of my arse

The idea of having it deal damage when it gets hit is kinda neat though.

Turtle is 1000000 times more effective of blocking anything. It also has taunt. That means it lures more creatures to it. Jelly can't even tank. Turtle has turtle shell.
Why detonate a jelly for 100 dmg loosing two turns when you could summon a hydra that does ~300+ aoe dmg?
Right now, turtle is awesome, jelly useless (and detonate is completely useless too).

So for now, maybe keep immobile, but boost damage to at least the level of the war hound and add reflect.

[Final Master]

Just a quick point - turtle is great, but not *needed* and is arguably not the best summon - do not nerf turtle - buff the other summons. Turtle is fine where it is - it can be very useful in a few situations, but it doesn't actively rid yourself of threats like [almost] all the other summons - which then makes it unique.

[marvalis]

I updated the suggestions about the stat points and damage increase. I think it is better now. I also remove some of the other ideas that are no longer appropriate with the latest jelly updates.

[darkgod]

I have improved their strength and/or damage done

[marvalis]

I have tested another game as a summoner in b30, with the improved melee summon damage.
I used the best available equipment (with a bit of cheating) to max out physical damage increase. I went up to 112%+ or something.
With this equipment, and with 1.5 mastery in melee (by using a category point), I managed to do 600 damage with my minotaur. The war hound and golem hit for ~300 each. While this might seem a lot, they also die in one or two hits. Remember, this is with the best possible equipment. Realistically it would be a bit lower.

I must say that I really like the fact that there is one more powerful summon (the minotaur). If they all would hit like this it would be overpowered. If there is one strong summon then you can use it in a narrow hallway.

The game is much more enjoyable. It no longer takes 5 minutes to kill one bone giant. The improvements seem good. I could dish out enough damage to win the end game. In that game I also died 12 times so it is not like summoners are immortal.