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 Post subject: Adept in 1.6
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:05 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:42 am
Posts: 29
I am trying to make this work, and I have a feeling this prodigy is actually pretty strong.

Here's what I tried so far:

Mindslayer (scales pretty well with absorption, resonance focus, and combat mastery 1.0->1.3) Nothing amazing, but lots of small stacking scaling. I tried going adept -> superpower as prodigies, it worked pretty well, I got lazy and got one shotted before I could win the game.

Doomed (upgrade shadows without a cat point, cursed aura goodness, fears also scale not too badly.) I tried adept->tyranny
Cursed (similar, cursed aura, fungus if you take it) Antimagic doesn't scale amazingly with cat increases, fungus can possible end up with an extra turn of regen, nothing to write home about. Cursed aura again is good. Gloom is decent too. Predator is good without extra cat, but IMO that tree scales too well and needs to be redone so it is also good with adept.

Same story with doomed, I lost before I could finish the game in the horror book, my cursed finished the game, atamathon, and also the horror book.


Your ideas?
Any other ideas of classes that work well with this prodigy?


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 Post subject: Re: Adept in 1.6
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:28 am 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:42 pm
Posts: 592
I agree it can be very strong. I think it varies a lot by class, though - I did not notice much impact on Cultist of Entropy, for example. Also appears to have no impact on Thick Skin.

I’ve been writing an Antimagic Psyshot guide for a bit, and I love it for Psyshots.
- Tinker classes start with 1.2 mastery in physics and chemistry, so they can get 3rd level tinkers with only 2 points invested. Given that something like 90% of all AoA tinkers are unlocked at level 3, going 2/2/2 in physics and chemistry gives you a ton of options.
- the mastery bonus applies to the talent level your activated tinkers are used at (so better ammo mods, thunder grenade, hand tinkers) and also boosts the Steam Power talent at the end of the Chemistry tree, making all your Steamtech notably better.
- Solidify air goes to 9 turn duration on a 15 turn cooldown. If you take Windtouched Speed for a second Prodigy it’s 9 duration on 12 cooldown. Nightmare can now reach 5 turn duration on 8 turn CD.
- With Antimagic they have lots of layered defenses, Adept helps all of them. Boosting both % resists and flat DR together is pretty strong - while no one defense gets super amazing, boosting Resolve, Molten Iron Blood, Automated Cloak Tesselation, Antimagic Shield, and Heavy Armor together is pretty potent. Just look out for Corrupted Negation!
- anything that makes Inner Demons proc more is good.

It’s also excellent on Possessors. They used to have to invest a category point to get to possess bosses, now they get that, higher level max host talents, more possible hosts, better attacks, more global speed from Clarity, and many other benefits, and it also comes early enough that they can snag some T2 bosses for fast-advancing races and still get Tinkers at 34. It *also* applies to all the talents they learn from their hosts, including the passives that are already stacking between your base skills and hosts stats (so you can get Weapon Mastery of 16.9 between 5 levels yourself, Adept-boosted Improved Form letting you learn another 8 levels from your host, and then all of that being boosted by 1.3.)

Possessors do currently have a memory leak, though, so they’re not really playable right now.

Summoners get some pretty good boosts to their summons, and also to Grand Arrival tricks.

Finally, I noticed better stats on Wayists, and therefore presumably Thalore Treants as well. Drem’s From Below gets another turn of duration, and T1 racials now cool down in 23 turns instead of 25, 20 with Adept and Windtouched together. Among many, many other effects, this gives Thalore permanent regen uptime with enough Fungus.


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 Post subject: Re: Adept in 1.6
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:17 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:42 am
Posts: 29
Those are some good thoughts. Fungus and antimagic by themselves aren't that strong, but together boosted seem pretty significant.

Now that you mention summoner, I remember on my last win a few years ago, I had to boost the category containing the fire drake to make it work, so that may be a theme worth pursuing, classes which seem a bit weak in damage scaling off mindpower or spellpower with lots of talents preferably with some synergies between talents.

I have never played oozemancer myself, but from what I hear and from reading the talents, that could be a good candidate to fit the same mould as summoner. What about solipsist?

Perhaps as an arcane option, archmage? I also haven't played this one.

Going back to doomed and cursed, if you want to theorycraft something unkillable, adept + category boost + t5 amulet with cursed auras means you can get tier 4 bonus on all curses(and leftover for 1 curse with 7 or 8 bonus I think), put together with adepted fungus and antimagic. You can get pretty close to unkillable. Most of the curses have some defensive utility.

My last character had a 14 turn regeneration on a 12 turn cooldown.


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 Post subject: Re: Adept in 1.6
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:36 am 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:42 pm
Posts: 592
Oozemancer is pretty different than summoner. Slime Roots has a breakpoint that needs mastery and is quite solid, but their summons don't scale well with additional investment (they're more like offensive or defensive buffs) and I don't know of other breakpoints they would need. It is probable that Oozemancers need Windtouched Speed and Superpower more now that much of their tricksy kit has been removed (Ancestral Life, Frenzy reset).


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 Post subject: Re: Adept in 1.6
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:03 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:42 pm
Posts: 592
Temporal Warden might be another candidate for Adept - Temporal Hounds are already crazy good, but with Adept they'll have more speed, more stats, better resists, more healing, and better breath. Lots of Temporal Warden talents don't scale super well and so are often left at 1 point investments, the damage on most of these will improve a bit since scaling benefits significantly at lower level improvements. And there's a few other goodies - another turn of Invigorate, better global speed from Speed Control stuff.

I'll probably try a Drem/Parasite Adept Tinker Temporal Warden and see how it goes trying to jam as much stuff into Frenzy with speedboosts as I can.


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 Post subject: Re: Adept in 1.6
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:48 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:42 pm
Posts: 592
Gives Necromancer access to top Lich option, which notably adds an additional 0.3 mastery to Star Fury and 60% crit shrug. In conjunction with Ablative Armor and a bit of dex, you should be able to hit 100% crit shrug, which is exceptionally good in the current crit-heavy system.

Also adds another minion from create minion, changes them from level +3 to level +5, and improves your distribution of minions towards higher-end ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Adept in 1.6
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:40 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:21 pm
Posts: 669
Location: From Russia with atchoum!
Is Adept retroactive?
I mean, is it work on those skills you get after Adept?
I think yes but not sure.

Also, important thing - Adept not only affect skills charcter has aka talent trees.
It also affect those skills on tinkers like usually you have tinkers with active skills listed as 5.0, but with adept you have increase.
Also not sure if affect damage of those tinkers.
Things like injectors goes from 1.0 to 1.3 too - also not sure it affect anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Adept in 1.6
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:54 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:42 pm
Posts: 592
According to helminthauge, it currently often applies double (raising escort unlocks to 1.6) in the current build. This is presumably a bug, but yes, it applies to what you’re calling “retroactively.” I would call it "proactively" and the case where it applies to talent trees already unlocked retroactive, but I could see wiggle room either way.

I noted the effect on tinkers in the second post.


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