ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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 Post subject: Sawrd
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 6:53 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:39 pm
Posts: 333
This is a weapon from the Orcs expansion.

It is a 2-handed sword that looks like a chainsaw. Cool idea. Stats:

Base weapon damage 30-48, causes bleed damage, multiple attacks: +3".

The latter seems to mean that every normal weapon hit is now quadrupled. It seems to apply to special attacks in a multiplicative way. For example, a stunning blow seems to result in 4 stunning blows with this weapon (damage-wise at least, I'm not sure about the stun effect).
An Ogre dual wielding this weapon and executing a Flurry hits so many times that I can't count them..

In practice this weapon deals about 2-3 times as much damage as the best weapons that existed to date (legacy of the naloren, Gnarg's Murdering Blade). For Arcane Blades the difference is even greater, since raw weapon damage is not as important to them. I imagine that an arcane blade with this weapon would probably one-hit KO Athamathon.

It almost breaks my heart to ask this, but to be honest: perhaps it would be best to nerf this beauty a little?


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 Post subject: Re: Sawrd
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 7:48 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:50 am
Posts: 1439
dual Sawrd flurry would be 24 attacks.
simple +10 x damage on hit, becomes 240

for arcane blade, that means 24 potential triggers, even if they are only half as likely.
a lets say lightning, maxed, would do around 300 damage on average.
if all were to trigger, that would be 7200 lightning damage.

if chance was at 25%(after dual penalty) that's around 1800 if i am not mistaken.
i am confident in saying that Atamathon would survive that.

Then, we are also going to add arcane destruction and the hand...
if both hands add up to 70 per hit, then that would be 1680.
and arcane destruction would do around 250 per trigger, and lets say chance is 25%. that would be around 6000 damage...

so that's 16680 damage from class provided triggers.
now, he might fall to that. not sure what's his HP is.


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 Post subject: Re: Sawrd
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 8:18 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:39 pm
Posts: 333
I was exaggerating a bit with Athamathon, sorry.

The main point is that this weapon is solidly dealing twice as much damage as Legacy of the Naloren, for any class that can use two-handed weapons. (All melee classes if you count Ogre.)

A weapon that consumes a prodigy to obtain should not be outclassed, and certainly not by such a large margin.


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 Post subject: Re: Sawrd
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 10:22 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 3:45 pm
Posts: 851
I rolled an ogre AB with pretty much best in slot gear, offhand lifedrinker, arcane might/flex combat. Autoattacking a dummy gives about 3k DPT with Champion's Will. Sawrd gives 6k. So yeah, a little too good maybe.


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 Post subject: Re: Sawrd
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 2:50 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:39 pm
Posts: 333
An arcane blade will probably deal more damage without an offhand weapon. Dual wielding halves your chance to trigger spells.
With other weapons the extra swing from your offhand more than compensates, but if your mainhand weapon already has 4 swings, I don't think it does.


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 Post subject: Re: Sawrd
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 4:08 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:50 am
Posts: 1439
hmm i might have counted both, before and after... well, then it would be a bit under 9k. total i think


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 Post subject: Re: Sawrd
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:44 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:01 am
Posts: 282
haha. I love how everybody found your arbitrarily chosen example to be so much more provocative than the general point you were making.

To tell the truth, I did begin to glow a little green with invidious desires when Radon started calculating the potential damage!

So, yeah. Sawrd. I haven't picked it up in a while, has it been nerfed already in git? It did need a nerf. There are a lot of ways to apply this idea and make it balanced!


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 Post subject: Re: Sawrd
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:06 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:09 pm
Posts: 368
I think sawrd is just a fairly rare drop. It seems to show up much less frequently then Blighted Maul which is another shoe-in for 'this just hits so hard, we're artificially choosing other two-handers'.

I think it only does 3 swings, not four. Is darn powerful though.

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 Post subject: Re: Sawrd
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:08 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:17 pm
Posts: 1457
Razakai wrote:
I rolled an ogre AB with pretty much best in slot gear, offhand lifedrinker, arcane might/flex combat. Autoattacking a dummy gives about 3k DPT with Champion's Will. Sawrd gives 6k. So yeah, a little too good maybe.
Ah... ogre one, you missed an opportunity. You wanted to be offhanding a staff for that delicious, delicious mana coil. Though you might have to splash adventurer to get that running... forget if non-reaver ogres can offhand shortstaves or whatev'. Wouldn't be a bad idea regardless, methinks, just to get steamsaw mastery...

... though if you're going that route, you go ahead and pick up psi-fighting or somethin', too, and have two mana coils.


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 Post subject: Re: Sawrd
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:32 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:40 am
Posts: 703
Shortstaves aren't offhand weapons, iirc they need corrupted strength for that.


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 Post subject: Re: Sawrd
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:16 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:17 pm
Posts: 1457
I... honestly can't tell looking at the code. They're not offhand slot weapons, but they are dual_wieldable true, and slot_forbid and twohanded false. Have no clue whether that means they can be offhanded normally or... well, not. Also too lazy to check at the moment. Distracted by eador's new horizons, heh.

Could almost swear I used to offhand the talos bottom half occasionally though, before ogres (well... and the short prefix entirely, iirc :V), and on non-reavers. Eh.


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 Post subject: Re: Sawrd
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:55 pm 
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Magical Girl

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:36 am
Posts: 428
Frumple wrote:
I... honestly can't tell looking at the code. They're not offhand slot weapons, but they are dual_wieldable true, and slot_forbid and twohanded false. Have no clue whether that means they can be offhanded normally or... well, not. Also too lazy to check at the moment. Distracted by eador's new horizons, heh.

Could almost swear I used to offhand the talos bottom half occasionally though, before ogres (well... and the short prefix entirely, iirc :V), and on non-reavers. Eh.

Talos bottom is a special case, normal shortstaves can't be offhanded unless you're a Reaver.

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 Post subject: Re: Sawrd
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:00 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5940
Sheila wrote:
Talos bottom is a special case, normal shortstaves can't be offhanded unless you're a Reaver.

Why are you handling Telos's Bottom?! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Sawrd
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:49 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:50 am
Posts: 1439
adventurers aren't picky. if it has special properties, they will use it.


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 Post subject: Re: Sawrd
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:05 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:39 pm
Posts: 333
So, after a long playing hiatus I wonder: was it nerfed?


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