ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:43 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:08 pm
Posts: 405
Been having several early game deaths to Cursed rares. Slash crits can one shot you. And if you run they have multiple ways to re-engage.

Something I didn't see mentioned about Wards is that they stack! So if you have 4 fire wards from a wand and 3 from a shield, you get 7 wards total when you activate it. Makes it worth it to have a warded shield in the offhand slot even if your class doesn't use shields

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:24 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:20 am
Posts: 297
jenx wrote:
A really important race option in insane is dwarf, because of the assistance you get to level up and the extra 3 bosses (if you include backup guardian :-)). It also has decent HP.

Sometimes I don't even use any dwarven racial talents.

So for insane bulwark, archer, rogue, etc, dwarf can be very advantageous start. I like this class for insane, and cornac, as the extra inscription point is very valuable, as is the fast levelling (I've also gotten yeeks pretty far). So exp penality makes a big difference for early game survivability, which matters a lot if you play roguelike like I do.


no no no

with three exceptions, dwarf is a terrible option

1: you wanna abuse stone walking really really hard

2: you're a solipsist whos going for gigantic saves, but can't spare an extra 4 edit: 5 generics for thalore's resall racial and a point for the treants(thalore is prolly better anyway edit: nvm dwarf has its advantages)

3: you're a stone warden

if you don't meet any of those criteria you shouldn't be a dwarf, at all; theres just better options, even halfling is better because of duck'n'dodge and indomitable, and the first racial is a nice 1 pointer too

edit: by picking a dwarf outside of those cases, one would be trading some lategame power for an easier start; its much easier to do the first few levels on insane over and over again(especially with the new changes) than it is to survive in insane high peak


Last edited by Zeyphor on Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:29 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:23 pm
Posts: 39
I am quite fond of Halfling, myself. I think Militant Mind has lots of potential with some points invested, depending on the build.

Duck and dodge is good to a point: just remember it procs after the initial qualifying damage- and it's fairly short duration even with some investment. It'll also override (not stack with) any other current Evasion duration (such as the skill itself), when it procs.


I'd say Halfling's a viable change of pace from the standard: Shalore/Thalore/Ogre, if you'd like something different.


___________________________________________________________________________

Also, I thought I'd mention that the Crypt is very unpopular on Insane and many suggest skipping it. For Roguelike, it's probably wise. I like to go in.

The crypt is a bit of a lottery, though; it can be brutally hard or just challenging. It can have some crazy monster combos in it and... depending on your point of view....it can be quite fun/nasty. I've run into 2 bosses + 3 uniques + some rares on the same floor (I lost this particular battle many times). The loot is usually good - often tier 4 or 5 uniques.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:11 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm
Posts: 2263
Zeyphor wrote:
jenx wrote:
A really important race option in insane is dwarf, because of the assistance you get to level up and the extra 3 bosses (if you include backup guardian :-)). It also has decent HP.

Sometimes I don't even use any dwarven racial talents.

So for insane bulwark, archer, rogue, etc, dwarf can be very advantageous start. I like this class for insane, and cornac, as the extra inscription point is very valuable, as is the fast levelling (I've also gotten yeeks pretty far). So exp penality makes a big difference for early game survivability, which matters a lot if you play roguelike like I do.


no no no

with three exceptions, dwarf is a terrible option

1: you wanna abuse rockwalk really really hard

2: you're a solipsist whos going for gigantic saves, but can't spare an extra 4 generics for thalore's resall racial(thalore is prolly better anyway)

3: you're a stone warden

if you don't meet any of those criteria you shouldn't be a dwarf, at all; theres just better options, even halfling is better because of duck'n'dodge and indomitable, and the first racial is a nice 1 pointer too


We'll have to disagree, as I stand by my comments. And I only play insane and madness.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:25 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 1:58 am
Posts: 787
Added a link to a recording of my TW killing Grushnak when his armor and defense were so high it made my weapons nearly useless. It demonstrates effective kiting and use of Rod of Spydric Poison and Aetherwalk. I highly recommend watching this video for anyone who has difficulty handling foes with very high armor. It's worth noting that I didn't play it optimally, since I wasted paradox using Breach and it took me than it should have to react appropriately to the Gunslinger rare, but it should give you a general idea of how to succeed in situations like this. I didn't give commentary this time, but I intend to in the future. Any feedback or suggestions you have will be appreciated.

I plan on recording Vor next, since he's the only difficult Pride Leader. By difficult I mean he can actually kill you, unlike Grushnak who just takes forever.

Edit: I recorded Vor, but he was so easy this run it isn't even worth uploading. Only hard class he got was Necromancer and his spellpower and spell save were so low that he was a pushover.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:23 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:42 am
Posts: 23
http://te4.org/wiki/Combat_Damage

While it was very impressive to watch you do that fight, 141 armour with a small resist all (30%) is hardly out of reach for many characters.

For mindstar users, in the prides in insane you should have around 150+ damage in the attack tab of your character sheet. Combine with the 90ish APR they get, that 150 turns into 100. While that hurts, it shouldn't render the npc completely invulnerable or even close to it.

At the same point in the game for 2 handed weapon wielders, your damage is closer to 350-400. So while you don't have any APR, that 400 still hits for 250. Again, it hurts but he's no where near invulnerable.

If you use any other weapon, bad luck to you. Almost all the other stuff scale terribly.

The trick is checking the enemy's defence and talent tabs by inspecting and changing out damage penetration to match their resistances so you can do as much damage without sacrificing your defences too much.

Saying that, it was a nice video. We need more people creating content for this game I think


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:16 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:56 pm
Posts: 128
Assuming you can use breach, armor is not an issue. Stun it with "Stop" from safe distance and then just turn them into pieces with seal fate.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:37 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:56 pm
Posts: 128
cksiu wrote:
For mindstar users, in the prides in insane you should have around 150+ damage in the attack tab of your character sheet. Combine with the 90ish APR they get, that 150 turns into 100. While that hurts, it shouldn't render the npc completely invulnerable or even close to it.


In this particular case mindstars are problematic. Only yeek and dwarves TW can learn mindstar mastery for free (because teleport to default, non race specific starting location for TW is a spell). 2H could work with giant. All other races have to dance around high armor + armor hardiness target till you breach armor hardiness / stun immunity or use bow.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:04 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 1:58 am
Posts: 787
Breach just wasn't going to stick, his spell save beat my spellpower by over 20. Really the main issue was the high defense and not the armor, since my hit chance was something like 25%. Hitting for 150 a shot is pretty good, if all my shots are hitting. It's worth mentioning that I had a Perfect Strike pick but I was never in any real danger (Grushnak is so easy to kite) so I took this opportunity to demonstrate how to manage if you can't deal much weapon damage. I also hadn't spent my second prodigy point which I later used on PES (first went to Arcane Might), which would have made the fight a lot easier.

There was a Bulwark randboss I killed in Gorbat Pride with only using Rune of Reflection and Webs of Fate since it had around 190 armor and 70 spell save (can't land Breach) but unfortunately I didn't record that. That fight inspired me to record Grushnak, though Grushnak was more mobile and strong but less tanky.

I don't think Mindstars are good on Temporal Warden since I can't justify using anything but Spelldrinker in my offhand slot and also they use a separate mastery. Also you cannot afford to spend points on both Wil and Cun.

My Temporal Warden is at the final battle now, I will record that fight with commentary unless I die embarrassingly. Anything in particular you think I should cover?

Edit: I won. Here's my recording. My voice isn't in top condition thanks to seasonal allergies but I hope my commentary will still be helpful. I definitely made a few mistakes but I tried to point them out when I noticed them.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:26 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:21 pm
Posts: 406
Location: From Russia with atchoum!
Hello bpat, I didn't read full discussion (yet), sorry if it was discussed - was the general strategy for equipment disclosed?
I mean what kind of equipment you need on Insane, with which qualities, which is universaly useful, which is useless, what should played keep for him, I mean those which shown on C button.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:12 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 1:58 am
Posts: 787
There's an equipment section but I'll add the my priorities for each slot here, not taking artifacts into account.

  • Weapon: Top priority is good on-hits, like gloom, amnesia, and cripple. Second priority is armor and damage stats. Projection is also good. For offhands, damage stats are less important, on classes like TW I tread this as a utility slot. Keep a resistance penetration weapon in case you need it.
  • Staff: Keep the best spellsurge staff and the best spellpower staff you find in case you really need to beat a save. Also keep your best resistance penetration staff. Otherwise whatever maximizes your damage, though warding is always good.
  • Mindstar: Hope you get some good artifacts because their egos are awful. Probably prioritizing mindpower above all else is probably best.
  • Armor and helm: Armor, life, healmod, and status resists are most important. Keep offense sets (robe) in inventory for when against foes who you don't need armor against. I believe all classes should use robes against Vor for instance. Never use light armor unless you need the Second Wind active from one.
  • Gloves and cloak: I usually focus these on crit and crit mult since they have good egos for those. Armor is also nice but not as much. If using Flexible Combat, look for good procs like Cripple or Dominate.
  • Boots: You really want to use a mobility artifact on this slot like Boots of the Hunter or Aetherwalk. Otherwise spellbinding ego is great on some classes.
  • Rings and amulet: Status resists and armor early, damage stats later since they get great crit and percent damage egos. Also gloom on hit rings are very strong for melee classes.
  • Lite: It's a weak slot, I think the resistance penetration ego is best. I like to use this as my Track slot because I don't miss much unless I find a particularly good lite.
  • Tool: Good artifact or warding torque (preferably psychoportation) is usually best. Keep a Perfect Strike pick for physical classes, because you will probably need it eventually.

Notable artifacts that you will want to use or at least hold onto almost no matter what if you find them on a class that can use them are Rod of Spydric Poison, Ungole's Egg Sac, Wrap of Stone, Boots of the Hunter, Aetherwalk, Dahktun's Gauntlets, Warmaster Gnarg's Murderblade, Spelldrinker, Spellhunt Remains, The Guardian's Totem, Zemekkys' Broken Hourglass, Shantiz the Stormblade, and The Black Plate. I'm sure there are many more that I forgot about.

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 4:26 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:00 am
Posts: 23
What is a good strategy for setting the level of instances?

I've only been trying insane for a bit, and it seems that once I hit Tier 2 dungeons (Old forest, Maze, etc.) I find that things gets really hard really fast and then I just die a lot. I like to play rogue and warrior classes.


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 5:21 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 1:58 am
Posts: 787
You mean spawning the zone then leaving to come back later? My general rule is don't, except for Lake Nur because I want to be able to store items as soon as possible. I prefer getting better loot and experience to a little safety.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:42 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:09 am
Posts: 42
Just starting on insane atm, I was wondering if there is a list of things we shouldn't do. Dark Crypt I gather is super dangerous. I assume the temporal rift in daikira would be a no go (since I struggled with it on NM). I guess the Elven ruins would also be pretty difficult. Anything else in particular that a new player to insane might want to avoid ? (I'd say overall I am pretty noob still, I won NM with PM mage following a guide and still used up all my lives).


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:51 am 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
Hatome wrote:
Just starting on insane atm, I was wondering if there is a list of things we shouldn't do. Dark Crypt I gather is super dangerous. I assume the temporal rift in daikira would be a no go (since I struggled with it on NM). I guess the Elven ruins would also be pretty difficult. Anything else in particular that a new player to insane might want to avoid ? (I'd say overall I am pretty noob still, I won NM with PM mage following a guide and still used up all my lives).

You get a lot more exp on insane so it's probably wise to skip a bunch of dungeons. Temporal Rift and Dark/Shadow Crypt in particular should never be done and i'd avoid lake of nur/alt daikara/ruined dungeon until after dreadfell. Also old forest becomes hell on insane so you might want to do the non-daikara T2 first.

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