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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:03 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
http://te4.org/games/addons/tome/trolls

Yes, another race addon. Though it's fairly rough, you have been warned - mechanics are mostly done but it's missing pretty important stuff and the graphics are somewhat ugly/mismatched.
Also development won't be among my priorities, so don't hope this gets 'finished' too soon...

What this adds

Moltep and Kezrak - Forest and Stone trolls - as playable races.

They share the same talent tree, but for each point in a talent gain extra passive benefits
based on subrace:

Moltep gain +1 life regen & +1% heal, while Kezrak gain +0.75 / +0.75% that but also +1/+1% armor/armor hardiness and +0.5% physical resist.

Also, there is a racial bonus for using Bill's Tree Trunk(Bill benefits from it, too)!

NPC trolls get racial talents and have their and base resistances/speed altered to be the same as those as player subraces. This also affects the troll bosses.
Patchworks Trolls had their base talents lowered a bit because otherwise, with the racials, they'd be ridicolous.

What needs work

Mechanics
This uses quite a few ugly, inefficient, should-not-be-done pieces of code that still work.
Once 1.0.5 comes out, update some of them, make all the passive bonuses scale with mastery, use callbackOnActBase on Stubborness instead of ugly superloading...

Graphics
Eventually ALL equipment is meant to look 'nice' and fit properly on the player model.
Currently most is out of alignment, which looks horrible.
It doesn't because I decided to rush it to get feed back on the rest. The talent icons also need to look way better. And yes, the stone troll player tile is quite ugly, rushed job...

Misc
text, quest, maybe a starting zone, especially for stone trolls. Extra bonuses for using the halfling foot(I was thinking another +5 luck and something else minor)?

Compatibility issues
This overloads troll and trollmire npc files.

Should your addon introduce new troll NPCs, and you want to make them gain the racial talents here with the appropriate benefits, just add trolltype="kezrak" or "moltep" as appropriate resolvers.racial()


Credits
Troll model based off existing golem and troll graphics, so thanks to Shockbolt & DarkGod for that, and also to rexorcorum.
Talent icons used Lorc's as a base.


Edit: because of some issues(like Trollheart giving errors), replaced the currently released version. If you are not validating, remember to download the addon again and replace what you have.

_________________
ToME online profile: http://te4.org/users/zonk
Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


Last edited by Zonk on Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:03 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:29 am
Posts: 703
Location: Turtlemire
So, the bad: I randomly couldn't attack an enemy troll, without a lua error popping, followed by my turn not acting.
The lua error... listed a few addons I have installed, so I'm just gonna not use it with them I suppose, but I thought I'd post it here, just in case it'd help you.
Code:
   [C]: in function 'error'
   /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:151: in function </engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:134>
Lua Error: /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:173: /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:151: /data-trolls/talents/troll.lua:93: attempt to call global 'getTriggerChance' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
   /data-trolls/talents/troll.lua:93: in function 'triggerTalent'
   /hooks/trolls/load.lua:16: in function </hooks/trolls/load.lua:14>
   [string "return function(l, self, data) local ok=false..."]:1: in function 'triggerHook'
   /mod/addons/Spellsword/superload/mod/class/Actor.lua:595: in function 'onTakeHit'
   /mod/class/NPC.lua:243: in function 'onTakeHit'
   /mod/class/interface/ActorLife.lua:31: in function 'takeHit'
   /mod/class/Actor.lua:2142: in function 'basetakeHit'
   /mod/addons/taint/superload/mod/class/Actor.lua:301: in function 'basetakeHit'
   /mod/addons/arcanum/superload/mod/class/Actor.lua:46: in function 'basetakeHit'
   /mod/addons/druid/superload/mod/class/Actor.lua:46: in function 'takeHit'
   /data/damage_types.lua:347: in function 'projector'
   ...dons/Spellsword/superload/mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:169: in function 'attackTargetWith'
   /mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:156: in function 'attackTarget'
   /data/talents/misc/misc.lua:71: in function </data/talents/misc/misc.lua:51>
   [C]: in function 'xpcall'
   /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:146: in function </engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:134>
   At [C]:-1
   At [C]:-1 error
   At /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:173 bumpInto
   At /mod/class/Actor.lua:2674 attack
   At /engine/interface/ActorLife.lua:41 check
   At [string "return function(self, x, y, what, ...) local ..."]:1 checkAllEntities
   At /engine/Actor.lua:184 move
   At /mod/class/Actor.lua:994 move
   At /mod/class/Player.lua:241 moveDir
   At /mod/class/Game.lua:1355
   At /engine/KeyBind.lua:224



For the Race itself, I really think you should lower the health regen gained by like 0.25 at the very least, as it's currently just a permanant regeneration infusion.
You should also increase it's Experience Penalty to, say, 40, because it's survival is currently off the charts.
The -10% Speed penalty really doesn't seem to balance it out at it's current exp and regen rates.

_________________
<mex> have you heard the good word about archmage?
<mex> I'm here to tell you about your lord and savior shalore archmage
<mex> have you repented your bulwark sins yet?
<mex> cornac shall inherit the Eyal


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:11 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:15 am
Posts: 300
I agree with starkeep, his survivability is pretty rediculous currently. the strength bonus also gets him weapon mastery way too early. but i love the idea of trolls as a player race!

here's a little something i whipped up tonight, feel free to use it :D


Attachments:
trolls.png
trolls.png [ 7.68 KiB | Viewed 3514 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:47 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
Thanks for the feedback:

StarKeep, were you using the LAST release? As in...I know that issue, but I fixed it and reuploaded. It was just a missing 't.'

Surivability/regeneration is sorta the point of this race - yes, it's fairly overpowered/very easy early on, and for some classes the heal mod and life regen synergize very well, but they're by no means invincible once you start dealing with damage spikes - as I found out during testing when I ran into the crypt...ouch.
I'd actually like to keep the life regen bonus as big as it is now, I don't think it's THAT ridicolous - for comparison, keep in mind that in 1.0.5 Quick Metabolism will give +2.5 per adjusted talent level life regen.

Also, instead of just simply lowering the amount of regen/heal mod on every talent, I could make the bonuses depend on talent tier.
Like Trollfury might be +0.5, Trollbrawn +0.75, Trollheart +1, Stubborness +1.25
So if you max the racial tree as Moltep, you'd get +17.5 regen(and heal mod), which I could have adjusted for mastery so it's almost 20.
Since I *do*want the regeneration to be noticeable early on, perhaps I could add a flat +1 regen at birth if I do it this way.

I don't think Stone Trolls are seriously more overpowered than Forest, though. Especially for some classes. Though I did initially give them half(rather than 3/4)the regen and heal bonuses...
And for experience penalties, I'm not a fan of them, they're there to make it 'fit' better with ToME(and initially, stone trolls had 30% instead of 25%). Also, 'lore wise', Trolls are supposed to have short lifespans, so I guess that might justify learning RELATIVELY quickly even despite not being too smart.

Daftigod, that is pretty nice, I'll see if I can think of a way to use it - not sure I know how to set 'alternate', non shockbolt tileset player models.

_________________
ToME online profile: http://te4.org/users/zonk
Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:52 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:29 am
Posts: 703
Location: Turtlemire
Oh, that report was from my first major troll, in the Arena, when I first got the file, so I'll update now.

Also, just an idea, but perhaps remove stamina regeneration and/or sustains when below 0% health.
Chat made an extremely potent point about how their negative health cap could effectively break the game with True Grit.

_________________
<mex> have you heard the good word about archmage?
<mex> I'm here to tell you about your lord and savior shalore archmage
<mex> have you repented your bulwark sins yet?
<mex> cornac shall inherit the Eyal


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:07 am 
Offline
Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
StarKeep wrote:
Oh, that report was from my first major troll, in the Arena, when I first got the file, so I'll update now.

Also, just an idea, but perhaps remove stamina regeneration and/or sustains when below 0% health.
Chat made an extremely potent point about how their negative health cap could effectively break the game with True Grit.

Ah, interesting, I thought other things that work off % life had a cap at 0 - Trollfury does!

Flat out removing stamina regeneration and sustains sounds a bit too harsh(and singling out stamina seems...unfair?), it might make the talent too niche.
Next release, I'll consider partially altering True Grit so you only get bonuses down to your non-troll death point.
So True Grit will still benefit from heroism, but not from Stubborness.
If Staggered isn't enough of a penalty, I can also change it - my initial versions of it gave the stunned damage penalty(so only 30% damage) and -50% rather than -25% speed.
Perhaps the speed penalty could be restored to 50%...

Edit: Also, StarKeep, I saw you brought up in chat that it's interesting how Troll racials don't scale with stats. That is actually intentional, especially on the first - I wanted to make it different from the base ToME racials which usually scale off a stat and only improve cooldown wise when you put put points in them.
Also technically stubborness does 'indirectly'scale with Con, since it's based off max life, of which Con is a factor.
Also, looking at the numbers again, I can see how the Stubborness bonus is JUST excessive. At TL 5 you can go down to LESS than -100% max life, which even with 'Staggered' is too crazy.

Btw, this release seems to have a bug where you basically get some effects of 'Stubborness' WITHOUT a point in the talent. Will be fixed later.

_________________
ToME online profile: http://te4.org/users/zonk
Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:47 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 52
I like the mod, but you could make the 2 subraces a bit different, for example forest troll gets only 25% stun resistance on the second racial + disease/poison resistance.

Also, I didn't notice anything new about Bill's Tree Trunk, could you tell me what the bonus does?


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:24 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
kemott11 wrote:
I like the mod, but you could make the 2 subraces a bit different, for example forest troll gets only 25% stun resistance on the second racial + disease/poison resistance.

Also, I didn't notice anything new about Bill's Tree Trunk, could you tell me what the bonus does?


The subraces should be more different yes, next release stone trolls will likely get more physical resist and stuff but no healing modifier.
And I did consider poison/disease resist but I thought the life regen is how they 'survive'those. Specific bonuses for each talent would be nice and were my first idea but I'd rather avoid that.
Also, I'm eventually planning a 3rd troll subrace, blight-themed.


As for the tree trunk ,it's supposed to have a 20%(or was it 10%? don't remember what I coded)chance to check for a physical crosstier effect on it which makes the enemy more vulnerable to crits. Only when worn by someone with type 'giant' though.

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ToME online profile: http://te4.org/users/zonk
Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:11 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:29 am
Posts: 703
Location: Turtlemire
When you do the avatar clean-up, could you add in support for Emaster's Battledancer Addon's Double-Weapons as well?

_________________
<mex> have you heard the good word about archmage?
<mex> I'm here to tell you about your lord and savior shalore archmage
<mex> have you repented your bulwark sins yet?
<mex> cornac shall inherit the Eyal


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:16 am 
Offline
Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
StarKeep wrote:
When you do the avatar clean-up, could you add in support for Emaster's Battledancer Addon's Double-Weapons as well?

Sure, it shouldn't take too much work.


Edit to avoud double post:
Development change log, comment if you have thoughts, I want to test things somewhat before relase:

1. Tweaked Kezrak bonuses:

+0.8 life regen, +1 armor, +1% hardiness & physical resist per talent point
Very slight base regen bonus but no healing modifier, so early on they should still feel similar to Moltep, but later on the difference should be noticeable.

2. Stubborness changes:
Fixed the issue where you got the benefits of 1/5 with no points in it.
Half as powerful, TL 5.5 gets you down to -55% max life.
Timed effect mentions your death point, though you still can't see actual life.
True Grit resist all is now capped by your pre-Stubborness death point. Means the synergy is less crazy.

Downside: fixing all this stuff meant extra function calls on every actor, if there is a performance issues it should be brought up.

3. Trollfury effect info mentions Trollheart duration extension, so you can get a feel for how useful the talent is to you without the log being spammed.

_________________
ToME online profile: http://te4.org/users/zonk
Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:56 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:05 pm
Posts: 151
StarKeep wrote:
Oh, that report was from my first major troll, in the Arena, when I first got the file, so I'll update now.

Also, just an idea, but perhaps remove stamina regeneration and/or sustains when below 0% health.
Chat made an extremely potent point about how their negative health cap could effectively break the game with True Grit.


So? Its a free to play game, and extra content...not to get adversarial here but who gives a -? Its not like it means anything unlike a game like EVE, which has serious repercussions.

If someone wants to use a piece of extra content, let them. If they dont want to, they wont, or will get bored of it.


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:03 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:05 pm
Posts: 151
spiralrazor wrote:
StarKeep wrote:
Oh, that report was from my first major troll, in the Arena, when I first got the file, so I'll update now.

Also, just an idea, but perhaps remove stamina regeneration and/or sustains when below 0% health.
Chat made an extremely potent point about how their negative health cap could effectively break the game with True Grit.


So? Its a free to play game, and extra content...not to get adversarial here but who gives a -? Its not like it means anything unlike a game like EVE, which has serious repercussions.

If someone wants to use a piece of extra content, let them. If they dont want to, they wont, or will get bored of it. Experience penalty means absolutely nothing with a mod that changes your experience penalty...too hard? change it to whatever percentage you like...Same with too hard, you can make it so you have 30 lvls before t3 dungeons..

Addons really make balance comparisons pointless, as the recent glutten class proved beyond any doubt.



Zonk, just do what you want man, just make sure everything works:)>


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:22 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:29 am
Posts: 703
Location: Turtlemire
I'm... not understanding any part of those posts spiral.
I'm not stopping people from playing, or saying this race too strong.
I'm pointing out a glaring oversight.



Doubling their Physical Resist eh? That'll be helpful against those Melee Rares.
55% of their giant health pool seems like a nice change. Offers a large opening to escape or heal up still, without essentially doubling your effective survival.

_________________
<mex> have you heard the good word about archmage?
<mex> I'm here to tell you about your lord and savior shalore archmage
<mex> have you repented your bulwark sins yet?
<mex> cornac shall inherit the Eyal


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
Come on, no need to get angry about this, it's just a not-very-balanced addon.
I appreciate all criticism , and admit that while I think that it's better to balance addon content by making it extra strong(on the player's side) rather than weak, I did go...overboard :D

(The True Grit issue, which I've fixed already, wasn't intentional btw - again, didn't know there wasn't a <0 life limit on the talent.)

I've basically fixed ALL known bugs but I'm taking some extra time because I noticed that while Trollheart was NOT bugged, it triggered far less often than I hoped - because the 10% check was on damage from a SINGLE type.

So I'm reworking it(mostly done) to use a fast-decaying 'Trollpain' counter instead.
Very simplified version: your % of life lost the previous turns, multiplied by a TL-dependant value is the chance to get Trollheart benefits. This could trigger more than once but only in extreme cases.

So...could take a few days, but you'll also get more avatar polishing, I want most/all tier 1 and 2 equipment to look good on the player.

By the way, I was also considering halving the resistance from Trollbrawn. 10% resistance AND saves is VERY powerful, 5% would still be nice, as you also get the physical saves and of course, the subrace benefits.
Also if people still think the regeneration is too crazy(remember, later on damage bursts/spikes HURT), I would be ok with lowering it, say +0.8 Moltep / +0.6 Kezrak or even +0.6/+0.4 but with a small at-birth bonus.
I do want to keep the Moltep's heal bonus and Kezrak's armor/resistance(do remember they get -10% speed, which I think is fairly worse than -10% fire resist, even if they already have +1 life rating).

Thoughts?

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ToME online profile: http://te4.org/users/zonk
Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:33 pm
Posts: 212
Why only -10% fire resist? Why not keep it consistent with NPC and do -50% fire resist that will be noticeable... -10% is basically nothing. It doesn't force player to change strategy in any way.

I dislike that first racial talent scales with talent level, that inconsistent with other first racial talents

1 life regen + 1% heal mod aren't far away of being worth generic points by itself, but potential +20 life regen + 20 % heal mod doesn't look THAT strong if you consider that in 1.05 with five class talent points will grant +12 life regen, my problem that you get that anyway as a free bonus...because all current racials would be worth taking even without that bonus


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