idea for racial flavor: different way of doing stat bonuses

[aberk]

I have been reading the discussions about racial flavor issues and I would like to propose an idea from Sangband. Instead of creating each race as static set of bonuses and penalties to stats, why not weight additional points added. For instance, (and I am just throwing out numbers here with no regard to balance issues) , a dwarf would receive +50% strength, which means that he or she would sometimes get two strength points for the price of one. The dwarf would also get a -50% to something like magic, requiring the character to spend more points to raise it. This idea would preserve racial flavor throughout the game. I welcome thoughts and opinions on this idea.

aberk

[Sirrocco]

Problem is that we want races to be flavorful, but not overwhelming. We want them to cause noticeable changes in gameplay style, but not be overwhelmingly powerful. Multipliers in TOME would be a much bigger deal than multipliers in Sang. In Sangband, it's an experience point-buy system, and the experience system is set up so that you can get where you're going even on wildly inappropriate races if you just spend long enough grinding, and still not be horribly gimped at the end. By contrast, all of the meaningful resources in TOME are limited. You get a certain number of stat points per game. You get a certain number of category points per game. You get a certain number of skills per game - and so on. Changing stat point efficiency would either feel trivial(because you were only getting two points rather than one once every 10 levels or so) or be severe (because in the end you wind up with 20 more points in various stats than anyone else) or both.

Now, what you could do is muck around with the category multipliers, though that carries its own difficulties. It's simply not going to be worth it to come up with racial multipliers for every category in the game - especially as it would make adding more races and more classes an ever-more-gruelling task as the game continued. You could make it stat-based, though - say that dwarves have a +0.100 mod to all willpower skills, say. There are still a few issues with that, though.
- Classes generally have skill trees of only a few stats. Some classes essentially only have skill trees of a single stat - most archmages, for example. This could then make certain races *significantly* better for some classes and *significantly* worse for others. If you don't consider this to be a problem, then it's not a problem, but it would be a fairly serious change from the current state.
- Currently, classes have been balanced around the idea that skill tree multipliers are largely static. Sure, you can buff a couple of them up with category points or magic items if you really want to - but category points are a strictly limited resource with a lot of other things that they can be used for, and the items (as the generally only affect one tree at a time, with a relatively small change) generally aren't all that appealing. In particular, a number of skills have breakpoints in very specific places. Phase door and teleport, for example, have a fairly significant breakpoint at 5.000 - meaning that shadowblades of classes with magic penalties can't ever use targeted teleport (or perhaps I'm confused, and it's teleporting others that they can't ever do). Other powers aren't intended to let you crank them up too high (The rampage tree for Cursed has a cooldown-reducing skill. Reduce that cooldown enough, and the rampage tree goes from "class-defining" to "horribly broken" - especially as you'll be buffing the other rampage feats at the same time). Basically, mucking around with multipliers too much can break any of the "big investment, big reward" effects - particularly if they're multiplicative (this one buffs damage, that one buffs area, the one over there reduces cooldown, etc).

[Zonk]

I'd like if this was done as +1 to some stats every X(5?10?)levels.
So a Dwarf would get +1 Con every 5 levels(and maybe +1 Str every 10), Shaloren would get + to Mag and Dex, and so on.
It does mean you will end up with somewhat different stats as you progress even if you don't specifically spend points on them.
And as it's not a multiplier, you won't feel bad about spending your points in a non-racial stat.
(And before anyone suggests it - no, I don't want penalties, like -1 to a stat every X levels. That would just suck)


Could also make a racial talent that you put points in in(generics of course), a bit like the 1st talent for Skeletons and Ghouls, but I think that would be too much(basically, Dwarves would get a +2 con/+1 str generic, for example).

[Sirrocco]

I personally rather like that the undead are aligned with their race in a way that most are not. I wouldn't mind terribly giving some or all of the base races their own racial trees, but if you were going to do that, I'd want to do something else interesting for the undead.

"every X levels" stat bonuses would work okay as long as they weren't under the absolute cap. It would suck to just lose that last point or two of strength because you got overexcited and maxxed your strength out before you got there.

Of course, once you're doing that for stats, you could do that for other things, too. Halflings could become luckier with level. The magic elves could gain spellpower.

[greycat]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this one yet: instead of capping every stat at 60, you cap it at some racial maximum which could be higher or lower than 60. (I believe this was called "maximize mode" in Angband. Or maybe it was the opposite.)

[Taxorgian]

Of course the biggest trouble with any of these is... what about humans? Would Higher get different ones from Cornac?

[Sirrocco]

Of course they would. Why wouldn't they? They have different attributes and affinities, after all.

[Zonk]

As for Cornacs - I did suggest a way to give them a scaling bonus...Give them an extra generic talent every say, 5 or 10 levels(levels at which any other race would NOT gain a generic).

[teachu2die]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this one yet: instead of capping every stat at 60, you cap it at some racial maximum which could be higher or lower than 60. (I believe this was called "maximize mode" in Angband. Or maybe it was the opposite.)

thats a wonderful idea.

there are also plenty of non-stat based ways to differentiate races: inherent resists/weaknesses, skill modifiers, damage bonuses, bonus points in certain skills, adjusted HP/stamina/mana regen rates, etc.
because races are unlocked, it could be fun to have interesting races that are very well-suited to specific classes that are either extremely difficult or extremely rare to unock - maybe things like a type of dwarf with appealing bonuses to many melee abilities, a race of elves with huge mana regen bonuses, a race of humans that generate 50% more positive energy, or regenerate equillibrium naturally, etc etc etc.