I want to get some ideas rolling for the Cursed class!
Looking at the abilities it seems as though Cursed have a LOT going for them, lot of passives and a lot of abilities that reaalllly affect foes around you.
There are a few large questions I have however and I want to know if anyone knows the answers....
Firstly...."Hate-based" is very vague, lot of moves have "hate based damage of %53" or something and I have no idea what this is based on. The Cursed have a hate bar with a 10 max and it ebbs and fills with your kills but...is damage based on level and hate? on your weapons and hate? If it's purely based on your hate...then your damage will be the exact same throughout the game...so I'm sure its not coded that way, however there is no information in the tooltip indicating otherwise.
Secondly.... Rampage, theres an entire tree devoted to this ability but it states that "there is a chance to take significant damage on the use of rampage". Anyone tested this? Is this a % of life? Is it on the use of the ability? A random chance during the 5 turns? At the end? In a game such as T-O-M-E where death is permanent I am skeptical of taking an ability that could just kill me...no matter how strong it is.
Thirdly, Unnatural Body, "As your hate fades and grows the damage you sustain is adjusted by -15% to 3%. I have no idea what this means. I assumed I was taking -15% less damage when my hate was really high and 3% more damage when my hate was low...but when you level it the numbers change to -12% to 6% making my theory false...I have no idea what this does. Anyone know?
If anyone's been trying out Cursed or know a bit more information about these questions please let me know! Also I would love to have this as a location for players interested in the Cursed class to continue seeking answers!
Cursed!
Moderator: Moderator
Re: Cursed!
"You get a Hate-based bonus of 5% to 20%"
When the game says something like this, it means that the bonus is +5% when your Hate is 0, and +20% when your hate is 10 or more. Most of their abilities work like that. E.g. the monster sensing passive goes from radius 2 (at 0 Hate) to radius 5+ (at 10 Hate).
When the game says something like this, it means that the bonus is +5% when your Hate is 0, and +20% when your hate is 10 or more. Most of their abilities work like that. E.g. the monster sensing passive goes from radius 2 (at 0 Hate) to radius 5+ (at 10 Hate).
Re: Cursed!
A few thoughts about the Cursed:
- Apparently, if you really push the rampage tree, it can basically give you a huge burst of power on a reasonably regular basis. It starts being worthwhile to do things like attach a teleport rune, hit the button when you encounter a boss (with the charge-and-attack power (waylay?) to make sure that you aren't wasting precious juiced-up turns just walking up to them) and then teleport away to heal/refresh if the boss isn't down or almost down by the time your juice runs out. Given how the skills all build on each other, I really do think that it's a tree that you want to either go very heavily into or stay out of entirely.
- I've been trying a gloom-heavy technique lately (like, *really* heavy. Fully max the tree with your first 20 class points and burn category points into it heavy) and the results aren't bad, but you wind up without all that much interesting to do, and he's still a bit more fragile than I'd like. Without some sort of an interesting activated power (and no, slash doesn't really count) the gameplay winds up being pretty monotonous, even if your enemies are all being slowly crushed under the weight of your personality.
- I'd like to hear from someone how well maxing pity works. It seems like the sort of thing that could be either really cool or really useless, depending.
- Given that the Cursed are weapons-users, you want to sink at least a few points into the generic weapon damage passive. Given that you're not pushing dex, you want to spend at least one point into the generic weapon hit-rate passive, and probably two or three, but that one's easy to judge. If you're missing a fair chunk of the time, dump in another point. If you're pretty consistently hitting, don't worry about it. Those are fairly necessary to function properly. Other than that, though, you want to be maxxing Unnatural Body as fast as you can. The boost to damage resistance is pretty much worth it by itself, with the regen-after-killing being a nice add-on. Some antimagic might be worthwhile (as it's also will-based) but you should arguably be loading up on your condition resist skill first. It seems to me like the "burn HP into Hate" skill is something of a waste, but I admit I haven't used it much.
- Apparently, if you really push the rampage tree, it can basically give you a huge burst of power on a reasonably regular basis. It starts being worthwhile to do things like attach a teleport rune, hit the button when you encounter a boss (with the charge-and-attack power (waylay?) to make sure that you aren't wasting precious juiced-up turns just walking up to them) and then teleport away to heal/refresh if the boss isn't down or almost down by the time your juice runs out. Given how the skills all build on each other, I really do think that it's a tree that you want to either go very heavily into or stay out of entirely.
- I've been trying a gloom-heavy technique lately (like, *really* heavy. Fully max the tree with your first 20 class points and burn category points into it heavy) and the results aren't bad, but you wind up without all that much interesting to do, and he's still a bit more fragile than I'd like. Without some sort of an interesting activated power (and no, slash doesn't really count) the gameplay winds up being pretty monotonous, even if your enemies are all being slowly crushed under the weight of your personality.
- I'd like to hear from someone how well maxing pity works. It seems like the sort of thing that could be either really cool or really useless, depending.
- Given that the Cursed are weapons-users, you want to sink at least a few points into the generic weapon damage passive. Given that you're not pushing dex, you want to spend at least one point into the generic weapon hit-rate passive, and probably two or three, but that one's easy to judge. If you're missing a fair chunk of the time, dump in another point. If you're pretty consistently hitting, don't worry about it. Those are fairly necessary to function properly. Other than that, though, you want to be maxxing Unnatural Body as fast as you can. The boost to damage resistance is pretty much worth it by itself, with the regen-after-killing being a nice add-on. Some antimagic might be worthwhile (as it's also will-based) but you should arguably be loading up on your condition resist skill first. It seems to me like the "burn HP into Hate" skill is something of a waste, but I admit I haven't used it much.
Last edited by Sirrocco on Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Cursed!
Let me explain Slash and you'll understand this easily:Dranwin wrote:Firstly...."Hate-based" is very vague, lot of moves have "hate based damage of %53" or something and I have no idea what this is based on. The Cursed have a hate bar with a 10 max and it ebbs and fills with your kills but...is damage based on level and hate? on your weapons and hate? If it's purely based on your hate...then your damage will be the exact same throughout the game...so I'm sure its not coded that way, however there is no information in the tooltip indicating otherwise.
Slash: blabla adding 50% hate based damage. (this actually should be 0 to 50% hate based damage to be clearer)
In the actual game it works like this. The ability itself calculates the percentage based on your current hate considering 10 to be maximum. So:
If you had 0 hate, this ability would hit for 100% melee damage.
If you had 5 hate, this ability would hit for 125% melee damage.
If you had 10+ hate, this ability would hit for 150% melee damage.
When the tooltip says x to y hate-based damage, it's referring to 0 and 10 hate values.
You misread it, it says there's a chance you ENTER rampage if you take significant damage... personally I've never seen it activate itself.Dranwin wrote:Secondly.... Rampage, theres an entire tree devoted to this ability but it states that "there is a chance to take significant damage on the use of rampage". Anyone tested this? Is this a % of life? Is it on the use of the ability? A random chance during the 5 turns? At the end? In a game such as T-O-M-E where death is permanent I am skeptical of taking an ability that could just kill me...no matter how strong it is.
Spoiling a bit, Rampage is awesome but only after you manage to dump 8+ points into the tree, so you'll probably want to wait until level 20ish to start investing in this.
Re: Cursed!
So, Unnatural body increases the damage I take by 15% more at 0 hate? I don't understand it the way its worded. With points the -% goes down...so i'm assuming the -% is a bad thing since it improves as I level it up. Can anyone clarify?
Re: Cursed!
Would it help if the descriptions said something like "adds 5% (at 0 Hate) to 50% (at 10+ Hate) damage" instead? I think that might be clearer.Firstly...."Hate-based" is very vague
I don't honestly don't know if Rampage will trigger when you take a big hit as I've never seen it. I think it probably should just be removed to make it clearer. I just kind of liked the Incredible Hulk idea of "Don't make me mad"."there is a chance to take significant damage on the use of rampage"
I don't really like this one either. This and Enrage could probably be changed to something else unless people are using them.It seems to me like the "burn HP into Hate" skill is something of a waste
I'm thinking the generic trees need to be revisited. They will probably be shared by a new class (and maybe others?). The generic trees will all probably need to be Willpower based instead of Strength based so they can be used by other Afflilcted classes. Like Cursed the other class is heavier on firepower and control but is fragile.
Does Cursed need a new class talent tree or would a new generic one be enough?
Re: Cursed!
Correct, negative resistance increases damage. Resistances can run from -100% (double damage) to 100% (no damage), although the positive resistance side has a default 70% cap that can be increased by specific equipment (maybe other ways, not sure).Dranwin wrote:So, Unnatural body increases the damage I take by 15% more at 0 hate? I don't understand it the way its worded. With points the -% goes down...so i'm assuming the -% is a bad thing since it improves as I level it up. Can anyone clarify?
<DarkGod> lets say it's intended
Re: Cursed!
Seethe is quite useful on certain situations, although I must admit that Enrage is quite a pitiful skill. However the Cursed Class already is overpowered as it is and already has too many places to drop generic points in, so please be careful suggesting changes to it.benli wrote:I don't really like this one either. This and Enrage could probably be changed to something else unless people are using them.It seems to me like the "burn HP into Hate" skill is something of a waste
I'm thinking the generic trees need to be revisited. They will probably be shared by a new class (and maybe others?). The generic trees will all probably need to be Willpower based instead of Strength based so they can be used by other Afflilcted classes. Like Cursed the other class is heavier on firepower and control but is fragile.
Does Cursed need a new class talent tree or would a new generic one be enough?
Re: Cursed!
Right. As you put points in it, Unnatural Body goes from mostly making you take more damage (but take a little less damage when completely full on hate) to mostly making you take less damage (but take a little more damage when completely empty on hate) while at the same time slowly cranking up the after-kill HP you get.
Dervis - Why do you say that the Cursed are overpowered? Is it just because of Rampage, or is there more to it than that?
Dervis - Why do you say that the Cursed are overpowered? Is it just because of Rampage, or is there more to it than that?
Re: Cursed!
Life leech aura + the best ESP in the game + dramatically powerful melee attacks + neverending resources.Sirrocco wrote:Dervis - Why do you say that the Cursed are overpowered? Is it just because of Rampage, or is there more to it than that?
A properly built Cursed can survive in situations that would tear up any other class in a couple of turns. Rampage is just the Overkill button...
Edit: I forgot 75% stun AND confusion immunity in talents. Also Cursed can get access to Antimagic Shield and have the Willpower to hold it, the best late game defense there is.
Last edited by Dervis on Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Cursed!
Ah. Then, in the spirit of the thread, I would ask - what do you consider "properly built" for a Cursed, and why?
Personally, I've been trying to get into Cursed, but my Wyrmics have fairly consistently outsurvived them, and I wasn't under the impression that it was because the Wyrmics were overpowered.
Personally, I've been trying to get into Cursed, but my Wyrmics have fairly consistently outsurvived them, and I wasn't under the impression that it was because the Wyrmics were overpowered.
Re: Cursed!
The early game is quite difficult for Curseds because of your lack of stuns, subpar damage and inability to hold a full hate bar. If you make it to level 20-25, stack your defensive talents and fix your damage output issue, you'll be able to slaughter everything without barely breaking any sweat.Sirrocco wrote:Ah. Then, in the spirit of the thread, I would ask - what do you consider "properly built" for a Cursed, and why?
Personally, I've been trying to get into Cursed, but my Wyrmics have fairly consistently outsurvived them, and I wasn't under the impression that it was because the Wyrmics were overpowered.
Re: Cursed!
Fantastic additions guys, thanks! A lot has been clarified for me. I hope this thread is built upon when more players have questions about the Cursed.
Re: Cursed!
Arrggg, its really tough without some sort of stun to take down wrathroot. Lost more than a few of my recent Cursed to him.
Re: Cursed!
Most of the cursed talents scale linearly (+5% +10%, +15%). It sounds like that should be changed to the drop-off scaling other classes have (+5% +9% + 12+). Is that a reasonable change? Or is the problem that you can layer a Dominate + Rampage + Critical + Blindside to wipe things out? Would it be better to change a talent or two to not add % bonuses, but add something else (like attack + Darkness damage or attack + Mental damage)?The early game is quite difficult for Curseds because of your lack of stuns, subpar damage and inability to hold a full hate bar. If you make it to level 20-25, stack your defensive talents and fix your damage output issue, you'll be able to slaughter everything without barely breaking any sweat.
As far as unlimited resources goes, I think some of the higher skills should consume a bit more hate. That won't hurt new characters, but will make the more powerful characters work harder for hate.