Changing Worried Loremaster rewards

[kingvictory2003]

I thought I'd bring this topic up, as every time one of these bastards shows up, I'm always disappointed that I get pretty lackluster rewards compared to just about every other escort.

Don't get me wrong, +1 to any stat isn't bad, but the unique abilities are just about useless. First, too many monsters don't rely on a crazy weapon to dish out uber damage (GMHW anyone?), and the sub-par damage almost makes Disarm pretty weak. The other two abilities are a huge disappointment as well, as they use equilibrium, and outside of any class that uses equilibrium, there is no way to restore it except to level up or to get one of those helms of whatever that restores points with damage taken.

Not to mention getting beamed in the back by the bastard as you're fending off a gigantic horde of evil terrors, and the loremaster is trying to "help" by zapping things from behind you with his mind

I'm just curious to see if fellow players feel that the loremaster rewards are OK, or they could use revamping. Maybe something along the lines of acidic skin from the slime tree, or some other sustain would be a much more worthwhile reward? I'm thinking of the incredible chants and hymns you get from the Anorithils and Sun Pallys.

[Mushroomhermit]

I'd almost say that scrapping the loremaster and replacing him with an archer would work pretty well. Theres very little representation of ranged combat outside of the archer/slinger class.

[kingvictory2003]

Hmm, that's not a bad idea mushroomhermit--except instead of getting beamed in the back, I guess you'd get the old-fashioned arrow in the back I wonder if that should be disabled, as it just doesn't make any sense, although it does indeed add challenge (for the wrong reason). The only class I'm willing to get shot in the back by for the moment is the seer, as the rewards are completely l33t.

[Burb Lulls]

One seer I escorted didn't even have beaming manathrusts, so she was literally just shooting me and not even bothering the enemies at all. Maybe she was one of those traitorous escortees I've heard about

[kingvictory2003]

Burb:
Guess she was just impatient to get on with it.

[Dervis]

In my opinion Mind Sear is one of the msot powerful wil gift talents you can find out there... although I do admit the other rewards are a bit weak. Maybe tweak those a bit.

[Gwai]

Agreed that the loremaster isn't worth it. He hasn't really been since he lost water jet. (Mind, I can see why that was removed from the choices.)

[greycat]

If the Loremaster is supposed to be a psionic, then he ought to be giving a +2 Willpower option.

Granted, I don't really have a feel for what this "class" is supposed to be just yet. Maybe that's because darkgod doesn't either?

[Sirrocco]

I'll agree that I was rather underwhelmed by the loremaster quest rewards. I think I may have just shrugged and taken a +1 to stat - and it always feels like such a *waste* to take +1 to stat.

Honestly, an easy answer would be to just make it +2 to any stat, and no skills. That way there's nothing uber, but everyone gets something useful - and if the coding goes into creating a new hapless character to save, it can add to the variety.

Also, shouldn't this be in "ideas"?

[Zonk]

I didn't actually vote as I'm torn - I don't think the talents are useless, they do feel a bit weird but provide some ranged capabilities to charactes who don't start with that(Fighters, berserkers).

I certainly wouldn't complain if the +1 to any stat got turned into a +2, however

Archer escort is interesting but needs a proper AI. Being shot in the back while you're trying to protect them is..unpleasant.

Also - I wouldn't oppose if some escorts gave you the choice of an ego item(based on their class...you could even have a generic merchant escort that's frailer than the others but gives you the choice of a very nice item or gold).
HOWEVER there is a narrative problem...the player could just kill them and grab the item, unless there's some sort of penalty.

ADD: Just had an idea for an extra Loremaster reward...+1 generic talent point. I'd certainly pick that some of the time. Some might find it too powerful, though.

[Final Master]

I have an idea on this as well, as is a radically different route. I say, if the Loremaster escort is meant to be the catch-all escort, drop all the current rewards they offer. Instead, have the option to learn a new talent tree at 1.00 mastery, or increase a current tree's mastery by 0.10. A list of x options, 1/2 from each general/generic tree/class type. I'd say probably 6 options. This way, they actually teach you something [lore here], and at a higher than normal gradient [master here].

Zonk informed me that there should probably be an amendment to this option.

IF talent.mastery <= 1.00 raise it to 1.10, otherwise add 0.10 mastery.

[kingvictory2003]

Some good ideas popping up, such as +2 any stat instead of talents, +1 generic talent point (although I agree perhaps too powerful), +talent mastery. Thanks for those.

I put this thread in Spoilers because some players are touchy even about the very minor spoiler of escort rewards--otherwise, this would've definitely went into Ideas.

Bottom line is that I wouldn't mind using Mind Sear as an ability, but it all comes back to the inability to recover equilibrium in a practical manner compared to other resources like mana.

Improvement to masteries is really intriguing to me; I'm not familiar enough with the actual mechanics to know just how powerful +0.1, or +0.3 etc to a specific mastery is. Can anyone give some examples? I always sell those mastery amulets I pick up, and generally am pleased by the cash vs. weight. I never use them though.

A little OT here, but related to masteries, I always felt the mastery bonuses on Ring of the Warmaster were pretty useless, or is this again due to my ignorance of mechanics? It seems to me that with a +0.1 bonus, even at 5 talent points, an effective 5.5 isn't going to do too much...

Thanks everyone!

[Dervis]

Improvement to masteries is really intriguing to me; I'm not familiar enough with the actual mechanics to know just how powerful +0.1, or +0.3 etc to a specific mastery is. Can anyone give some examples? I always sell those mastery amulets I pick up, and generally am pleased by the cash vs. weight. I never use them though.

A little OT here, but related to masteries, I always felt the mastery bonuses on Ring of the Warmaster were pretty useless, or is this again due to my ignorance of mechanics? It seems to me that with a +0.1 bonus, even at 5 talent points, an effective 5.5 isn't going to do too much...

Thanks everyone!

There are a few very good places to drop category points in, with the few exceptions being cause by talents using TalentLevelRaw for some reason. Generally if a tree is good enough for you to max out more than one skill you'll probably notice the extra mstery.

If you want an example, I like dropping points in the Cursed/Rampage tree ... each 0.10 mastery gives you an extra turn duration, +5% damage, +5% speed + a couple extras on your IMBA cooldown.

[Shoob]

Disarm is good, mind sear is good, water jet is good, I dont see the need for at least these three to change at all (or has this changed since then).

personally I think that seers have bad rewards, but I am not complaining about that

disarm - effectively removes any dangerous opponent in melee.

mind sear - a "high" damage beam effect

water jet - a stunning thing.

what is bad about them?

[kingvictory2003]

The few times I tried Disarm, it either failed, or didn't have a big effect on certain enemies, such as Skeleton Warriors. Some of them have weapons, but some of them don't. Can't tell beforehand, and some of them can deal pretty good damage to a low-level character even without a weapon.

And once again, it isn't that the abilities are bad (FYI water jet was probably the ability replaced by the current Poison Spit), but that regaining equilibrium is impossible, or at least impractical unless you happen to be a Wilder. Only mechanisms I'm aware of is leveling (which stops happening after level 50), and the ego helm that translates damage into reduced equilibrium. Would you sacrifice the Crown of the Elements or even Hammerhand to a plain ego helm? So to spell it out plainly in a different way, once you hit level 50, your equilibrium goes up, up, up and up, and before long every Mind Sear will fail, fail, fail.

Perhaps if there were a ring of reduce equilibrium as there is a ring of mana, that would work better. There's also discussion about making a potion of restoration to replace mana in the Ideas section, which could restore resources other than mana.