About resting

[escargot]

Hello everyone,

I played a lot of ToME2 and just a week ago I re-checked the website and realized ToME4 existed. Such great news.

So now I'm playing it and so far the impressions are very good.
I started with a dwarf berzerker, who died unexpectedly turning around a corner, but I managed to get the summoner achievement and now I've got Lordi, the 13th level elf summoner, through the trollshaws, the old forest and he's starting to venture through the maze. In an escort mission I got the sense skill, so in addition to equilibrium I have mana. You would understand the importance of a summoner to cast sense how often as possible in the maze, so mana is an issue and it appears it won't regen (and since 'R'est stops after health is full regen'd, I don't know if I completely lack mana-regen or it takes very long). How can I know my mana-regen speed, if existant?; am I dependant of mana potions?

Thanks in advance and congratulations on ToME4, it's great so far.

[darkgod]

Thanks

Mana does not naturally regenerates except for "real" mages classes: Alchemists, Archmages, Pyromancers, Cryomancers, Tempests (in next beta).

So your characters learning a mana using spell will require potions yes, just like arcane & shadow blades do

[greycat]

You may also find a ring of mana, which (when worn) will cause your mana to regenerate (slowly). If you're relying on mana-based talents and your mana doesn't regenerate naturally, you'll want to look into that as soon as possible.

<Spoiler> If you do the apprentice mage quest, there's a ring/amulet store in the mage town. They sometimes sell rings of mana there. It's worth going back periodically to look for one. </Spoiler>

[escargot]

Thanks for the quick answers. I think I'll have to adjust my diet and add more blue liquids into the mix.

That reminds me of ToME2 and dying of poisoning after an urgent meal of hacked orc meat. I think I'm gonna miss those funny -but blatantly stupid- moments.
But I also think I'll also have some as soon as I start playing ToME4 more often.

[Fela]

You may also find a ring of mana, which (when worn) will cause your mana to regenerate (slowly). If you're relying on mana-based talents and your mana doesn't regenerate naturally, you'll want to look into that as soon as possible.

<Spoiler> If you do the apprentice mage quest, there's a ring/amulet store in the mage town. They sometimes sell rings of mana there. It's worth going back periodically to look for one. </Spoiler>

Considering the availability of mana potions and what a ring can offer instead i would say mana regeneration is totally not worth it.

And i'm playing shadow blades almost to the exclusion of all other classes

[Grey]

I find the same with Arcane Blades. And if you get the Feed ability it's even better - feed, rest, feed, rest, feed, rest... It's rare to deplete all your mana without getting a breather.

[escargot]

On my way back to Bree to get some potions a (H) maulotaur facing next to me right after a corner solved all my troubles, burning the hell out of me.
I think I'll give another chance soon to the summoner, but until then I'm playing some other classes I haven't payed attention to. But next time I'm sure getting your advices beforehand.
Cheers.

[Final Master]

I'm actually a bit interested in some form of restriction on constant 'free' healing. I'm not saying exactly implement food and hunger, but maybe something like that is a bit necessary?

[Mithril]

I'm actually a bit interested in some form of restriction on constant 'free' healing. I'm not saying exactly implement food and hunger, but maybe something like that is a bit necessary?

No. I always feel stressed by time limited games (which effective food requirements mean like in Crawl where the amount of food available is finite in each game). Alternatively, food means that you must travel back to towns very often in order to heal or get new food which is just boring and pointless. It may also add add other pointless chores you must perform like butchering every monster corpse in order to get food (yes, Crawl again.)

[darkgod]

Yeah this is why there is no food in T4
Time limits are nice but not in tome.

I am trying to think of an "autorest" system that would automatically kick in when not in combat, but "not in combat" is a very hard thing to measure :/

[Kemsha]

I think it takes the edge off some things

get struck by a trap -> rest until fully healed
fight a tough monster -> rest
fight an EASY monster -> rest
use a talent with longer cooldown -> rest

As long as you survive, on your next chalenge you'll be as good as new

If there's nothing stopping you from doing this, some things loose it's importance
So what If I spend 100 mana to kill a troll? No point in choosing the right tool for the job, I just hit always with the big guns because with a press from a button I'm at full strength again

I'm not saying that food should be implemented but maybe the monster generation could be a bit bigger or monsters could move on their own even if they haven't spotted us

That way we could still rest but it wouldn't be so easy

[Mithril]

I think it takes the edge off some things

get struck by a trap -> rest until fully healed
fight a tough monster -> rest
fight an EASY monster -> rest
use a talent with longer cooldown -> rest

As long as you survive, on your next chalenge you'll be as good as new

If there's nothing stopping you from doing this, some things loose it's importance
So what If I spend 100 mana to kill a troll? No point in choosing the right tool for the job, I just hit always with the big guns because with a press from a button I'm at full strength again

I'm not saying that food should be implemented but maybe the monster generation could be a bit bigger or monsters could move on their own even if they haven't spotted us

That way we could still rest but it wouldn't be so easy

You make it sound like the game is very easy.

I like it very much that you can regroup after each fight.

Mana, that you mention, does become a problem especially later in the game when monsters come in hordes and if you have too many sustaining spells. In that case you will very easily run out of Mana in a fight.

Also especially later in the game you may to have consume potions and scrolls just to survive many encounters or to navigate the dungeons. So there is a gradual attrition until you can restock in a shop.

[Kemsha]

easy?? not at all

but I dont expect a roguelike to be easy. Maybe because I was used to other games, it almost felt like cheating to me when I did all this resting

but I do it now... and I still die often

You make it sound like the game is very easy.

I like it very much that you can regroup after each fight.

Mana, that you mention, does become a problem especially later in the game when monsters come in hordes and if you have to many sustaining spells. In that case you will very easily run out of Mana in a fight.

Also especially later in the game you may have consume potions and scrolls just to survive many encounters or to navigate the dungeons. So there is a gradual attrition until you can restock in a shop.

[Fela]

get struck by a trap -> rest until fully healed or create a new character
fight a tough monster -> rest or create a new character
fight an EASY monster -> rest
use a talent with longer cooldown -> rest manually unless also hurt

Fixed for perspective

The game is currently balanced (well, somewhat anyway) around the possibility to rest between encounters. Even with 5 talent points in trap disarm, i've been half dead from a trap more than once (apart from having 5-6 potions destroyed if it was acid). Likewise after some of the tougher monsters.

Also in regular Angband you can always simply recall if you need an extended rest/resupply.

or monsters could move on their own even if they haven't spotted us

I'd actually support this idea, as long as it happens in moderation.

[greycat]

There are some monsters that do come after you. Not just bosses, either.