Rouge tree idea

[konca]

I still feel that rouges are missing something compared to shadowblades. So i ve come up with skill tree idea concentrated on stealth scales with cunning:

1 skill
Hidden light:
Allows rouge to have light source activated when stealthed - only visible for him.
passive - light source radius increases with level.
( it was always annoying for me that you have use magic mapping before y could use the stealth )
2 skill
Stab from the shadow: ( active )
if stealthed rouge can teleport to the enemy and hit him for 100% damage with each weapon and blind him for
X turn. At level 5 there is also has 50% chance that enemy will be confused for 2 turns.
Stealth isnt broken by using this skill.
3 Hidden moves - sustained
Rouge acts faster when stealthed - each level grants X% to speed.
4 stealth mastery - passive
each level grants + 0.1 to stealth tree multiplier and +10% chance that spells and ranged attacks will miss when stealthed.

What do you think ? Imo rouge should have big advantages in stealth tree over shadowblade to compensate for lack of magic..

[Grey]

I don't like this myself - too powerful. As I see it there's no need for balance between the classes, and certainly none between Shadowblades and Rogues who have quite distinct playstyles. I love Rogues at the moment because they're one of the most challenging classes to play, which makes them for more fun than Berserkers and Archers. Their talents are all limited to very specific tactical abilities, and every battle becomes a careful consideration of resources and cooldowns and making best use of the environment. Immense fun, and powering them up would ruin that. The proposed trap creation abilities should hopefully fit in well with the current low damage, high tactical-thinking nature of the class.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind a "Blinding Stab" ability, but it shouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as the Shadow Stab you propose. Some of the things you suggest are a bit too magical in nature for what should really be a dirty tricks role.

[madmonk]

1 skill
Hidden light:
Allows rouge to have light source activated when stealthed - only visible for him.
passive - light source radius increases with level.
( it was always annoying for me that you have use magic mapping before y could use the stealth )

This is a magical device type thing so more appropriate for the Shadowblade. The Rogue might have a small light source that gives 6 infravision (like the Phial of Undeath) but I question whether this is needed... better still would be the ability to see 1 or perhaps 2 square when stealthed (so automapping).

This implies you should replace this with something else. Perhaps what you might consider is a complete hide in shadow skill. So our heroine could stand in the open and have an increasing chance of not being seen.

2 skill
Stab from the shadow: ( active )
if stealthed rouge can teleport to the enemy and hit him for 100% damage with each weapon and blind him for
X turn. At level 5 there is also has 50% chance that enemy will be confused for 2 turns.
Stealth isnt broken by using this skill.

How far can the Rogue teleport?
How long is blinded X turn?
If the enemy is blinded why confuse for 2 turns (especially if the blinded duration is longer than the confusion...)

In any case I don't like the idea of teleporting - smacks of too much magic. I think an increasing chance of a crit would be sufficient.

3 Hidden moves - sustained
Rouge acts faster when stealthed - each level grants X% to speed.

Fair enough although you might want to consider this as activatable rather than sustained thing. I can see this being left on the whole time and be very unbalancing.

4 stealth mastery - passive
each level grants + 0.1 to stealth tree multiplier and +10% chance that spells and ranged attacks will miss when stealthed.

Having this as a mastery multiplier would take the whole tree into the realms of the excessive. What you might want to do is drop the school multiplier and have an increasing chance that spells and attacks (note I said attacks not just ranged) miss.

What do you think ? Imo rouge should have big advantages in stealth tree over shadowblade to compensate for lack of magic..

I disagree, Rogues play very differently from Shadowblades and with good reason. Please don't take these comments (or Grey's) as being negative... Build on your ideas and you never know perhaps they will be included.

[Lailoken]

I think a daze move that doesn't break stealth would be sweet (and not overpowered).

[madmonk]

I think a daze move that doesn't break stealth would be sweet (and not overpowered).

Yes, that might be really good!

[darkgod]

I'm inclined to reveal the new rogue trapping tree then:
* Trap Mastery(passive): improve your traps efficiency and each level teaches a new kind of trap
* Distract(active, does not break stealth): creates a lure at the designated area, lurig monsters to attack it, easily dispatched by melee, harder to kill with spells/archery
* Sticky Smoke(active, does not break stealth): reduces the "aggro" radius of the target, allowing you to navigate closer, also drosp current target.
* Trap Launcher: allows to deploy traps at a distance from you

There are 5 levels of trap mastery, so 5 traps that are learnable:
* Explosion trap: basic, AOE fire explosion
* Bear trap: pins the target and makes it bleed
* Catapult trap: knocks back the target
* Disarm trap: tries to disarm the target
* Freeze trap: stuns the target (not sure about the name)

In addition this opens the possibility to find/learn/get rewarded with new trap types.

[Widget]

That's a really interesting tree, enough so that I can't wait to try a rogue after it's implemented and that's really unusual for me. Looking at it, I think there's enough utility and possible strategies there that there's not much point thinking about more skills or tweaks until it's been implemented and tried out.

[keekooceeaou]

* Freeze trap: stuns the target (not sure about the name)

What about... (behold my creativity!) "Stun trap"?

[Taxorgian]

* Freeze trap: stuns the target (not sure about the name)

Perhaps "Webbing trap" since it's a lot like the spiderweb?

[darkgod]

Not really, webbing prevents movement, not action

[Grey]

I can see myself spamming catapult and freeze traps to good effect I'm actually not that keen on the freeze one - it seems a bit too magical for the class. Stun or blind seem more appropriate. I presume there'll be a hefty stamina tag to trap creation? Can't wait to try them out anyway. Want b13 now now now!

[Feanor.81]

Well for what is worth, my suggestions for trap names, based on some research of existing trap/trap-kind names, are as follow:

* Explosive trap: basic, AOE fire explosion
* Foothold trap: pins the target and makes it bleed
* Catapult trap: knocks back the target
* Disarming trap: tries to disarm the target
* Stunning trap: stuns the target

Dunno if order and characteristics should be the one listed;
* Catapult (recursive knock back with a slight damage)
* Explosive (AoE fire damage)
* Disarming (Disarm effect)
* Foothold (Pin with a slight damage and Bleed effects)
* Stunning (Stun effect with a slight damage; could be AoE as well, to give the poor rogues some mean of crowd control).
seems more balanced to me (I mean regarding the benefits you get from the trap in terms of gameplay).

Shouldn't they also require some item to be set up? You know, it would seem strange to just create such chemical/mechanical traps out of nowhere (We could have basic trap sets like in many other rpgs, one for each trap kind, and be able to find them scattered through the world, in shops, or obtain them by successfully disarming an existing trap).

As a side note: I'm already loving the Distract talent, it will be some fun Anyways, I'd call it "Lure" (more evocative). I'd also change Sticky Smoke to Thick Fog. (A fog effect gas seems more natural and likely to not be immediately interpreted as an offensive tool, like smoke would, and so would be more fitting, since the talent is intended to just disorient and not alert the enemy).

Comments?

[Grey]

I prefer "Beartrap" to "Foothold trap" myself, since it has a very evocative image attached. Also, maybe it could do extra damage to bears?

I agree with "Lure" instead of "Distract". "Thick Fog"... hmm, sounds more like some bad weather than a physical ability. Maybe "Smoke Cloud", "Artificial Mist", "Miasma"...? "Stink Bomb" even?

Stun trap: "Kick up the ghoulies"

Materials would be kinda cool, but would also be a real nuisance. I think the idea should be that a skilled rogue can forage the necessary items MacGuyver style from the nearby environment.

[Wombat]

The trapping tree sounds great. I will definitely try rogues again once you release it.

[Repton]

Stun trap: neurotoxin trap?

Or, deadly nightshade trap?
According to wiki: "Deadly nightshade (Atropa belladonna). All parts of the plant contain the toxic alkaloid atropine. The young plants and seeds are especially poisonous, causing nausea, muscle twitches, paralysis;"