Thematic randarts

[ghostbuster]

Are there some plans for randarts?

I was thinking that the scheme of tome2 for randarts could be improved by adding "thematic random artifacts".
Thematic randarts would be based of a given thema (for instance, fire, water, earth, magi, death, life, attack, lite, stealth, etc...)
and have a coherent (but randomly generated) set of features and a name and lore adapted to this thema.

For instance for a dagger of the thema fire, you could see a red mithril dagger and once identified discover that it is
The flaming/burning/fiery/etc mithril dagger 'Archieneops' (or The red mithril dagger of Gur-T'ien or The dagger of the Eternal Flame)
and that it grants some features among
extra fire damage
increase fire attacks
fire resistance
increase strength
+light
etc

Of course, while the thematic features should be dominant, other features (stat increase, extra APR, etc) can also be generated and negative features (coherent with the thema -resistance to cold, for a fire thema for instance) can also appear.

An activation coherent with the thema could also be generated and/or a mastery/spell depending on the type of object. For instance a fire oriented staff could give some mastery to the fire spell tree, and/or increase/grant the flame spell, etc...

Last a thematic lore can also be added by compiling predefined chunks of phrases.

In other words, these thematic randarts would look like "real" artifacts, but be randomly generated...

[Shoob]

Hehehe, I will take a crack at this, I think I have a fairly easy way to implement them. Well, maybe not the thematic part for now, but I will make randarts. Then if I feel up to it, I can make thematic ones.

[ghostbuster]

Hehehe, I will take a crack at this, I think I have a fairly easy way to implement them. Well, maybe not the thematic part for now, but I will make randarts. Then if I feel up to it, I can make thematic ones.

I don't think that the implementation is very difficult, even for the thematic part. The hard job is to find a set of parameters to create randarts that are neither pathetic, nor insanely overpowered (which happened frequently in tome 2).

[Shoob]

basically my idea was to generate them with a for loop, so each one could have a variable power (and rarity), and I guess it wouldnt be that hard to implement thematic ones if I sectioned the properties out before I called them, I may work on this this weekend if I get the time.

[teachu2die]

quick q -
how are randarts going to be generated? ie: are they going to be created upon item generation or will a set, fixed number be generated at character birth?

[ghostbuster]

quick q -
how are randarts going to be generated? ie: are they going to be created upon item generation or will a set, fixed number be generated at character birth?

I think the method generally used in roguelikes is that a certain percentage of item created are randarts (say 1-5% of ego items). This percentage is level dependent, in such a way that you find more randarts in the deepest levels.
Then to generate a randart, you determine a "credit" based on the actual level, the character luck, RNG, etc, and you charge the item with features that are each assocated with a given amount, as long as the credit is non nul. This allows to have better randarts in deep levels, while it would not be possible with a predefined fixed number of randarts.

[teachu2die]

yes, that's how it's done in ToME and some other RLs - randarts can potentially be generated during item generation. but some other roguelikes will have a certain portion of the artifact set is randomized and generated at character birth (like in FAangband). in vanilla angband, randarts is an option that is turned on at birth, and a set of randomly generated artifacts replaces the normal set.
it essentially comes down to whether or not a potentially unlimited pool of artifacts is desired, or whether it should be something more controlled.

[Final Master]

I really actually don't want random artifacts personally; atleast if they are done in the same manner as T2's. There was far too much crazy stuff going on there. REALLY TONED DOWN random artifacts, if any.

[Susramanian]

Or the crazy ones are only generated in, say, the Infinite Dungeon.

[teachu2die]

i agree - T2's randart system was too much. there were more than a few games i found randart armor that covered 3-4 immunities (and even crazier ones in Theme)...clearly overboard.
i think it was also a problem that there were an infinite number of randarts available in every game - grind long enough and you will be basically guaranteed to find something wayyy too good. this *can* work if you really don't mind a totally zany, unbalanced game but i don't think thats the goal here...
but especially given the lack of appealingly powerful egos (and heck, the lack of artifacts on the whole) right now, though, i think randarts would be a great addition.
i like the idea of loosely themed artifacts as well, particularly beyond elemental themes...

[ghostbuster]

I also agree that randarts in T2 (and especially in some modules) were too powerful. But indeed, I think the problem is that items in general were too powerful. Cloaks or armors with immunities, armors or vampiric weapons that increase life, insane rings of speed or of extra attacks, amulets or shields of reflexion, items that grant you total ESP, etc. None of these features exist in T4 and obviously they should not exist in randarts.
This is part of the difficulty to have randarts properly balanced with other items in the game, but otherwise they can be a nice addition in the game.
What should also be avoided are the bosses that drop a garanteed RA.

[teachu2die]

yeahhh, those rings w/ +8 speed and attacks were...errr... a problem!
i'm actually somewhat opposed to the guaranteed artifact drops from bosses in general, but that's a different story....

[Karoline Dianne]

The only artifacts I ever found were completely useless.

Books that reduced your wisdom when activated.

Skulls that let you turn everything around you into quartz...

I never found a single useful artifact.

[teachu2die]

those weren't randarts, but things called 'junkarts'. some of them activated for VERY VERY poweful things, but usually they are useless.
proper randarts in tome2 are just like normal artifacts, but with a random selection of powers. sometimes they are worse than normal ego items, sometimes more powerful than the most powerful normal artifacts.

[darkgod]

Yeah T2 randarts were completly mad

I am not sure we need randarts here, but if you want to try your hand at it shoob we will see how it goes.
I do think we need to restrict their numbers though: generate them at birth and not thousands of them.

IMO they should be equivalent to what would be a tripple ego maybe ?