New Class: Artist (Runemaster)

[Zaive]

What weapons are Artists going to use, anyway? I assume daggers since Dex is a main stat and 2 daggers means 2 brands.

[madmonk]

Came down with 'flu which is why I have not been posting here but recovering nicely.

As to weapons, you could use 2 weapons or a weapon and a shield or whatever takes your fancy.

Had not really thought about it in a formal context (ie what the PC starts out with).

[darkgod]

Or a staff maybe ?
They could have the staff combat generic tree of alchemists

[Taxorgian]

Another thematic choice would be that one hand holds a one-hand weapon and the other would hold a (wooden) pen. The wood type of the pen would increase rune effects because the quality of the pen's design makes for better artistry and hence stronger runes. For integration with the T4 combat system this would be in the "off hand" since an artist wielding a weapon would learn to use the one that does NOT hold the pen as the main weapon hand.

Ego pens:
Sharpened (does extra poison damage -- since ink is often toxic)
of Artistic Mastery: Additional rune power
of Flowing Script: +3 DEX

Artifact:
The Elven-wood Calligraphy Pen of Bilbo Baggins
Sharpened and artistic mastery
+5 DEX, +3 WIL

The pen used to write the epic tale "There and Back Again," held by the hand of the only mortal to ever wear the One Ring and give it away of his own will.

[Shoob]

the only mortal to ever wear the One Ring and give it away of his own will

<off topic> well, technically Samwise Gamgee did it too </off topic>

[Taxorgian]

I thought Samwise only wore the One about his neck on a chain? But it's been a long while since I read the books.

[edge2054]

I'm not a fan of the staff tree to begin with and I don't know that it meshes well with the brands (granted that could change). Also I figured Monk's idea seemed to be more sword and shield oriented but I could be wrong.

Feel better soon madmonk

[madmonk]

ye.... copugh!@%*& Swine flue is a bitch!

Will get back to this shortly!

[madmonk]

More changes...

1) Brands revamped
2) Glyphs adjusted
3) Wards of Utility included
4) School of Sigaldry (Sigils) increased from 4 to 6.
4.a) Range and Mirror wards might be combined...

The Artist!

Paint brush in hand, possibly the most dangerous graffiti artist you are likely to meet... The thing that makes this class interesting is how you use Sigils!

The Artists main stats are: Dexterity and Willpower. Dexterity for the manual dexterity required to paint the sign to be used and Willpower to provide the necessary Mana to power it up.

Schools and Talents

NB: Tlevel refers to Talent Level.
NB: Use some sort of appropriate scaling formula for this to work. E.g When you see X below perhaps use: (A+(Tlevel*Stat)/B)
NB: If a range is mentioned then the shortest standard bow range applies (8 squares??).
Armour and Weapons
(Qv)

Brands
Brands can be applied to items or to traps (for additional damage). May not be applied to Artifacts or ego items. Brands last for (tlevel*5 turns) If armour is branded then it will increase the resistance to that element; if a weapon is branded then additional damage or other effect is dealt. In either case the amount of resistance/damage is dependant on the Tlevel of the brand.

Melzac's Brand
Weapons/Traps: Each level does X Physical damage in addition to the normal base damage. At each talent level there is an (X)% chance to Sunder armour.
Armour: Each level increases defence. At each Tlevel there is an (X)% chance to Sunder Weapon when hit.
Flamma Brand
Weapons/Traps: Each level does X Fire damage in addition to the normal base damage. At each talent level there is an (X)% chance of extra fire damage for 3 turns.
Armour: Each level increases Fire Resistance. At each Tlevel there is an (X)% chance to deal some damage when hit.
Meldrum's Brand
Weapons/Traps: Each level does X Acid damage in addition to the normal base damage. At each talent level there is an (X)% chance of blindness for 3 turns.
Armour: Each level increases Acid Resistance. At each Tlevel there is an (X)% chance to deal some damage when hit.
Rime Brand
Weapons/Traps: Each level does X Frost damage in addition to the normal base damage. At each talent level there is an (X)% chance to Freeze for 3 turns.
Armour: Each level increases Cold Resistance. At each Tlevel there is an (X)% chance to deal some damage when hit.

Glyphs
Glyphs are applied to items. May not be applied to Artifact items. Glyphs last for (tlevel*5 turns). Glyphs have to be 'A'ctivated.

Romer's Glyph - Cast a light bolt for X damage. At Tlevel 5 X% chance of blindness for 3 turns.
Wall's Glyph - Cast a magic stone for X damage. At Tlevel 5 X% chance to hit a vital organ for double damage.
Erb's Glyph - Cast a magic mana bolt for X damage. At Tlevel 5 X% chance of extra damage for 3 turns.
Matthiessen's Glyph - Cast an elemental bolt for X damage. At Tlevel 5 X% chance of extra damage for 3 turns.(Random elemental bolt is chosen when triggered)

Wards of Trapping
Wards are applied on the ground and are considered one shot and time limited in effect. Wards last for (tlevel*5 turns)

Incendiary Ward - When triggered each level does X Fire damage. At each talent level the damages continues for Tlevel turns
Lewis' Ward - When triggered each level does X Acid damage. At TLevel 3 it becomes an Area Effect spell Radius 2. At each talent level there is a (X)% chance of blindness for 3 turns.
The Maze Ward - When triggered the target is stunned for (X) turns
Quake Ward - When triggered each level does X Earth damage. At TLevel 3 it becomes an Area Effect spell Radius 2. At Tlevel 5 it has a radius of 3. At each talent level there is a (X)% chance of Stun for 3 turns.

Wards of Utility
Wards are applied on the ground and are considered one shot and time limited in effect. Wards last for (tlevel*5 turns)

Travel Ward - When triggered random phase door; at Tlevel 5 Teleport. If a second travel ward is within range you will go there (random choice if more than 1 is in range).
Ward of Healing - When triggered heals X damage. At TLevel 5 it becomes an Area Effect spell Radius 2.
Ward of Power - When triggered X Mana is restored.
Recall Ward - When triggered recall 1 level (you are deposited on the up stairs of the revious level. At TLevel 5 it Recalls you to the entry to the dungeon (outside).

Runes
Runes enhance the caster. So physical stats are (STR, DEX, CON) and magical stats are (WIL, MAG, CUN). Runes last for (tlevel*5 turns). Only one rune can be cast on the caster at a time. Casting a second rune dispels the first (this includes any Runes that have a Sigil cast on them - even Morrison's).

Auroch Rune - Increases any physical stat - the stat is chosen when the Rune is cast. Target is the caster.
Blum's Rune - Increases any magical stat - the stat is chosen when the Rune is cast. Target is the caster.
7 League's Rune - Increases Speed by (tlevel*2)%. Target is the caster
Flower Rune - Increases hitpoints by (tlevel*8). Target is the caster

School of Sigaldry
Sigils are combinations of other signs. For example, you can use Sigils to enhance traps - take Maze and add Fire Damage to it. Or use them on armor or weapons...

Seal Sigil - Add a second spell to a primary spell for increasing lengths of time (E.G: Lay a Maze Ward and then use the Seal Sigil to add Fire Brand damage to it.)
Level 1 - Access to Brands - You can add 2 Brands together
Level 2 - Access to Glyphs - You can add 2 Brands or Glyphs together
Level 3 - Access to Wards - You can add 2 Brands, Glyphs or Wards together
Level 4 - Access to Runes - You can add 2 Brands, Glyphs, Wards, or Runes together
Level 5 - Add 3 spells together.

Range - Cast a single Ward some X distance away in an orthogonal direction. At Tlevel 3, allow the diagonal; at Tlevel 5 any location within range may be specified.
Store - Absorb a spell cast at you. You get a percentage of the mana used to cast the spell and take %damage less as a result, the mana gained is added to your current mana level even if it takes you over your maximum allowed mana.
Mirror - Create a ward on the ground and a second ward is created some X distance away. The location is chosen by you - but there is a small random element applied as well. At Tlevel 5 eliminate the random element.
Eruption - Create a special Ward (Area effect when triggered is 2) which takes all your mana and all your physical health (except 1 pt). When triggered a percentage of this energy is released and used as damage to the target.
Morrisson's Sigil - Level 1 - Make any Brand permanent. Level 2 - Make any Ward Permanent. Level 3 - Make any Rune permanent. Level 4 Make any Glyph permanent. Level 5 - Lock any Brand/Rune/etc, so it cannot be overwritten

[edge2054]

I like it for the most part

Some questions.

Was the omission of only one brand or glyph per item accidental?

How would the store Sigil work? Would you apply it to your armor? Also how hard would it be to make this a true store then discharge effect? So if someone casts spell X at you and (assuming the Sigil goes on your armor) you had a store sigil active you could then discharge it with activate like a glyph?

Is Flower Ward supposed to be Increases hitpoints by (tlevel*8)%? (there's no % but 40 points for five points in a talent seems low).

Some comments and concerns.

Glyphs having a duration means they'll have a very high action cost in combat (2 turns) and will add to the prep time before combat (which the class already has a lot of). If they're simply permanent until discharged or over written then they're more of an after combat thing, you put your glyphs back into place and then when you need them they're there. Also the class is already very prep time heavy and it might not be a bad idea to give the class at least one way of attacking that doesn't require prep time right before a fight (well, I realize there's a sigil that does that but it sounds like that won't be available till level 12.)

On that same note it might not be a bad idea to give wards a short range by default (say 5 - 10). The class is very prep-heavy and I fear the play style will be very tedious if you can't do anything without five rounds to prepare.

Ward of Power will need to be cheap or give a lot of mana back. The main abuse I see for this ability is in set up since it effectively extends your mana pool and thus allows you to prepare more smack down for the coming fight.

You listed six Sigils. Since four would complete the tree my personal four favorites are store, mirror, morrison's, and seal.

I guess my main concern with the class design is that there's not enough to do in combat. You do a lot before combat but once the fight starts you've either prepped enough or you haven't.

That said, I like all the effects a lot.

[madmonk]

I like it for the most part

Some questions.

Was the omission of only one brand or glyph per item accidental?

Mistake on my part, I will specify that...

How would the store Sigil work? Would you apply it to your armor? Also how hard would it be to make this a true store then discharge effect? So if someone casts spell X at you and (assuming the Sigil goes on your armor) you had a store sigil active you could then discharge it with activate like a glyph?

Good thought! I had in mind originally that Eruption could be abused by using Store then casting Eruption and pumping it with all the extra Mana you got! This might work better:

Create a Sigil on an item of armour, when attacked by a spell it stores a percentage of the incoming energy (reducing the damage appropriately). This can then be triggered to cast a Mana bolt in a direction.

So we combine Store & Eruption!

On another note we could also combine Range and Mirror Sigils.

Is Flower Ward supposed to be Increases hitpoints by (tlevel*8)%? (there's no % but 40 points for five points in a talent seems low).

Yes it is low but since it can be a permanent increase (by using Morrisson's Sigil) I was about this a lot... On the other hand I am open to suggestions!

Some comments and concerns.

Glyphs having a duration means they'll have a very high action cost in combat (2 turns) and will add to the prep time before combat (which the class already has a lot of). If they're simply permanent until discharged or over written then they're more of an after combat thing, you put your glyphs back into place and then when you need them they're there. Also the class is already very prep time heavy and it might not be a bad idea to give the class at least one way of attacking that doesn't require prep time right before a fight (well, I realize there's a sigil that does that but it sounds like that won't be available till level 12.)

As long as this is the only school that can be permanent until triggered I am OK with that! Gives some flexibility too! You are right about being prep heavy!

On that same note it might not be a bad idea to give wards a short range by default (say 5 - 10). The class is very prep-heavy and I fear the play style will be very tedious if you can't do anything without five rounds to prepare.

How do you make out the 5 rounds to prepare bit? I am a bit confused here, as usual!

Ward of Power will need to be cheap or give a lot of mana back. The main abuse I see for this ability is in set up since it effectively extends your mana pool and thus allows you to prepare more smack down for the coming fight.

My favourite would be lots of mana back... Plenty of scope for abuse.

You listed six Sigils. Since four would complete the tree my personal four favorites are store, mirror, morrison's, and seal.

I guess my main concern with the class design is that there's not enough to do in combat. You do a lot before combat but once the fight starts you've either prepped enough or you haven't.

That said, I like all the effects a lot.

Yes, agreed...

[edge2054]

Something I just caught. Mezlak's as Defense? How about Physical Resistance or Armour instead?

edge2054 wrote:
Is Flower Ward supposed to be Increases hitpoints by (tlevel*8)%? (there's no % but 40 points for five points in a talent seems low).

Yes it is low but since it can be a permanent increase (by using Morrisson's Sigil) I was about this a lot... On the other hand I am open to suggestions!

40% might be alright actually. I think 40 is probably to low (doesn't health do much more then this or did it get nerfed, been playing mages lately?) If it's to much it can always be scaled back to 20 or 30%.

How do you make out the 5 rounds to prepare bit? I am a bit confused here, as usual!

Well I figured one round to brand your weapon and another to brand a piece of armor (if I didn't need a specific resist I'd probably at least want Mezlac's) and a few more rounds laying wards. Really though it was just a random number I pulled that seemed about right.

My point though was if you can drop a series of wards as enemies are approaching you (by making them short range instead of at your feet) and balance the ward damage on the assumption that the player will do exactly this the player will be less inclined to spend extra rounds prepping and then baiting mobs into wards he laid before combat. In other words it's another adjustment that could lower prep time. You could even make them short range and lower the duration to promote this kinda on the fly ward laying play style. Which to me sounds like a lot more fun.

On glyphs being permanent until triggered, I suggest making them mutually exclusive with brands (except via sigil). In other words if you've glyphed your armor you can't brand it. This will also encourage the player to spend less time prepping (branding every piece of armor he can) but allow him to still brand everything if he chooses (but then he gives up his glyph slots).

And for the record, I'm still for allowing artifacts and ego items and balancing brands around that. In other words if the player can use artifacts and ego items the brands should do less damage and provide less resists. Maybe items you can activate can't be glyphed to avoid multiple activations on one item but otherwise I think it's doable.

On a personal note, finding neat and exciting item upgrades is half the fun for me, and a class that sticks me with base equipment only just isn't as exciting. If you envisioned a class that eschewed such things as part of the class design rather then eschewing them for game balance I support your class vision, but if game balance is your main motivation I think that's something that can be addressed in the abilities themselves.

[madmonk]

Something I just caught. Mezlak's as Defense? How about Physical Resistance or Armour instead?

Happy to do any of them... In fact why don't we have it as an option?

Is Flower Ward supposed to be Increases hitpoints by (tlevel*8)%? (there's no % but 40 points for five points in a talent seems low).

Yes happy to go with a %, this seems more reasonable and we can always tweak it later!

My point though was if you can drop a series of wards as enemies are approaching you (by making them short range instead of at your feet) and balance the ward damage on the assumption that the player will do exactly this the player will be less inclined to spend extra rounds prepping and then baiting mobs into wards he laid before combat. In other words it's another adjustment that could lower prep time. You could even make them short range and lower the duration to promote this kinda on the fly ward laying play style. Which to me sounds like a lot more fun.

OK, but very limited in range Max 2 squares, remember that the Artist has to actually paint the design on something... Maybe 3 squares at Tlevel5

On glyphs being permanent until triggered, I suggest making them mutually exclusive with brands (except via sigil). In other words if you've glyphed your armor you can't brand it. This will also encourage the player to spend less time prepping (branding every piece of armor he can) but allow him to still brand everything if he chooses (but then he gives up his glyph slots).

I totally agree, and it does need to be explicitly stated!

And for the record, I'm still for allowing artifacts and ego items and balancing brands around that. In other words if the player can use artifacts and ego items the brands should do less damage and provide less resists. Maybe items you can activate can't be glyphed to avoid multiple activations on one item but otherwise I think it's doable.

Happy to allow ego's but I am still worried about Artifacts! Dark God what do you think?

One final thought... Which occurred to me today. A lot of the spells are time limited deliberately, why don't we change these into sustained effects using Mana? We could then have a real use for the Store Sigil - as a source of Mana for these spells!

This would then turn things into a delicate balancing act. It introduces a real tension into battle and would encourage investment in Weapon and Armour handling.

[edge2054]

OK, but very limited in range Max 2 squares, remember that the Artist has to actually paint the design on something... Maybe 3 squares at Tlevel5

Fair enough.

A lot of the spells are time limited deliberately, why don't we change these into sustained effects using Mana?

As in continually use mana while sustained? Maybe make Ward of Power X mana over Y turns then? I like the synergy with Store Sigil here too. Synergies are good imo!!

The only issue I see with making everything sustained is action cost. Doesn't canceling a sustained spell cost a turn? Maybe make brands and runes sustained and make wards short duration if that's the case (2+(tlevel*2) turns or so)? That way the player isn't having to cancel wards that the enemy has advanced past in the middle of a fight to keep his brands active. This may be a non-issue though.

Morisson's Sigil when used with a glyph should probably make it work like an artifact, slowly recharge rather then letting the player fire it every round. Also if things go to sustained effects that cost mana each round I guess Morisson's would just eliminate the mana drain and make glyph's reusable (and wards permanent if you agree with the paragraph above)?

How will different durations work with Seal Sigil? To keep it easy should it just use the parent sigils durations and sustaining cost? So a glyph with a brand attached works just like a glyph with X effect added?

Will the class need more then glyphs (branded or not) to deal with ranged attackers? If not I don't think Rush is the answer (unless we want them to have stamina) and obviously not teleportation if we're limiting runes to a 2 or 3 tile range. What about some sort of LOS disruption? Or summoning circles? Not like summoning friendly creatures but a circle you cast at your feet and then targeted a hostile creature and it would pull them into it?

[madmonk]

As in continually use mana while sustained? Maybe make Ward of Power X mana over Y turns then? I like the synergy with Store Sigil here too. Synergies are good imo!!

The only issue I see with making everything sustained is action cost. Doesn't canceling a sustained spell cost a turn? Maybe make brands and runes sustained and make wards short duration if that's the case (2+(tlevel*2) turns or so)? That way the player isn't having to cancel wards that the enemy has advanced past in the middle of a fight to keep his brands active. This may be a non-issue though.

Since Wards tend to be one shot things, I would make these permanent until used. No Sustain costs!

Morisson's Sigil when used with a glyph should probably make it work like an artifact, slowly recharge rather then letting the player fire it every round. Also if things go to sustained effects that cost mana each round I guess Morisson's would just eliminate the mana drain and make glyph's reusable (and wards permanent if you agree with the paragraph above)?

Not sure about this, I need to think on that more...

How will different durations work with Seal Sigil? To keep it easy should it just use the parent sigils durations and sustaining cost? So a glyph with a brand attached works just like a glyph with X effect added?

What I propose is a fairly radical departure from what we were proposing, so all of these things would need to be looked at again!

Will the class need more then glyphs (branded or not) to deal with ranged attackers? If not I don't think Rush is the answer (unless we want them to have stamina) and obviously not teleportation if we're limiting runes to a 2 or 3 tile range. What about some sort of LOS disruption? Or summoning circles? Not like summoning friendly creatures but a circle you cast at your feet and then targeted a hostile creature and it would pull them into it?

Yes, we would need to change things around a bit! Given that we have 4 ranged attacks I don't believe we need to worry about this (plus you can always learn bows/slings fairly easily!)