Rogue Builds

[Zaive]

I'm not sure whether this should go here or spoilers. Anyway, what kind of strategies have you all tried with rogues?

I tried to make a rogue based on stealth. I kept cunning maxed at all times and tried to max the stealth talents. I only got to level 11 before dying, so I don't know how useful hide in plain sight and unseen actions really are (only level 2 in hide), but it seemed like it was really tedious.

It definitely had its uses. A dual strike (level 1) from stealth usually did 200 damage with 2 steel daggers and I could kill an enemy before they could do anything. Enemies couldn't follow me at all while under stealth and I could easily get away from bad situations. I've also seen enemies attack thin air.

Having no light radius while under stealth really wasn't an issue - With maxed stealth and level 1 in heightened senses, I could walk around unstealthed and just stealth when I see an enemy, since I could see enemies 6 tiles away and I only needed to be 2 tiles away to stealth, and the fact that they initially saw me means I could lure them into back to an area I knew the layout of.

The only problem is that all that is only good for 1 pre-emptive strike. if there were any other enemies around I would have to make a run for it. This made gameplay really tedious, especially since aoe attacks like sweep only hit 1 enemy with shadowstrike. Maybe unseen actions would have helped with that.

I'm not really sure if that was a bad build or just needed a few more skill points, but leveling like that was tedious.

[edge2054]

I had moderate luck with a stealth build.

I started a ghoul rogue (for another stun) but didn't live long.

Rogues could probably do well with a 'use magic device' type talent added to their skill set. Something that increases their magic attribute by x% of their cunning so they can make better use of scrolls and potions.

Hmm...

Maybe this would be a good addition for an advanced rogue tree similar to the new advanced warrior trees. I'll give it some thought and post it.

[Gwai]

That would be a real help too, edge!

[Mushroomhermit]

Try playing a shadowblade! That sounds like exactly what you are talking about.

[edge2054]

Yeah, Rogue's feel really incomplete to me.

I can't see any reason to play one over a Shadowblade except getting the stealth tree early but stealth doesn't really take off until after level 10 anyhow so...

Maybe Rogue's need more Rogue trees. Pre and Post level 10.

[Mushroomhermit]

I think a poison tree would fit pretty well.

envenom
- attacks with both weapons and causes X poison damage over Y turns if either hit is successful. X is increased by cunning and skill level. Y is increased by skill level.

numbing brews
- while a target is afflicted by envenom, attack and damage are reduced by X%

neurotoxin
- while a target is afflicted by envenom, global speed is reduced by X%

venenum animus
- increases the damage of envenom and converts the damage from poison to arcane (basically makes it effective against undead and other poison immunes)

Maybe a talent set for "grenades" i.e.

flash powder
- Blinds enemies in a small radius, duration/radius increase with skill level, range increases with DEX

smoke bomb
- Basically a darkness spell (enemies cant see into it, allowing you to stealth) maybe a longish cooldown that can be reduced with additional talent points. Centered on the player.

tear gas
- same as flash powder but with slow

shrapnel
- adds some damage to flash powder and tear gas

This would allow rogues to handle groups better without just turning them into AoE monsters

[edge2054]

I really like those ideas Hermit.

Smoke Bomb could be nice as a way to disrupt LOS, letting the Rogue take out a single target with in sight of some archers or casters.

Tear Gas I'm on the fence about. But as long as it didn't effect undead I think it would work.

[Shoob]

though I also believe that the y turns is redundant as poison damage just deals nature damage over 5 or 6 turns (forget how many right now) though it may matter if that last talent in that tree is incorportated

[Mushroomhermit]

I wanted the duration to change so that the next 2 talents would last longer.

[darkgod]

I had planned for an Assassin class with a poison tree but yes rogues need something and this seems fitting, also with trapping as edge put it in an other post

[SerPounce]

Just making Rogue's mastery in stealth a bit better would be really nice. Such that unseen actions allowed you to stay hidden longer into the fight (not just maybe getting another blow or two), and hide in plain sight could be used more frequently (like every 4-5 turns). Currently it's a lot of skill points just to get 1-3 sneak attacks.

[edge2054]

SerPounce has a good point too.

Stealth is a heavy talent point investment for the return.

[Mushroomhermit]

What if unseen actions made stealth last an additional 1-5 "actions" before actually breaking it and leaving you out in the open? That would reduce the chance of rogues being RNGed to death.

[edge2054]

Another thought for improving stealth is to give some actions a tag so they don't break stealth at all and other actions a tag so they don't break stealth until after the action is complete. For balance reasons I suggest Flurry is not included in this but the AoE attack might be appropriate.

More specifically though I was thinking of bombs and traps. Bombs might lower your effective stealth for a few turns after use but since it's a ranged attack there shouldn't be a guarantee that the enemy saw where it came from. Traps are indirect and being able to lay one and stay stealthed would be good. Maybe the talent that lets you lay them though and the one that modifies them so they explode should lower your effective stealth for a few turns so players still have to play smart about it (plus it makes sense, laying a trap might make more noise then is usual).

[Zaive]

Yeah, I did a double-take when I used hobbit's luck and lost stealth. Like my rogue was saying "Look at me! I'M LUCKY!" or something..

Why do those race skills even take a turn, anyway? doesn't make sense to me....

Idea: make it so if you kill an enemy with a stealthed strike, you don't unstealth. That would be cool.