Alchemist impressions, feedback, and suggestions.

[edge2054]

So far I really like this class. At first I felt maybe it was lacking some meat with how few talent trees it has, maybe it still is lacking in that regard but what's there is pretty solid.

That said a few of the talents are somewhat lacking. Gem Vision is basically just a really weak version of Vision with a component cost attached to it. Golem: Pound always damages and dazes the Golem when it's used and you can't use it around the alchemist at all unless you want to daze him too.

Maybe I wouldn't feel so robbed by Gem Vision if it revealed traps and monsters in that radius so it'd be like a combination of Sense and Vision just in a small radius or even add this effect with more points invested.

Golem: Pound might be more useful as a cone affect like Flameshock. Could even have the radius increase as it leveled (again like Flameshock). I won't call it's current form useless though, just a lot less useful then I first imagined. When the Golem is about to die it's really handy to buy yourself some extra time (assuming you're not close to the Golem of course.)

Frost and Lightning Infusion don't seem to be implemented. When you add the first point to Acid Infusion it unlocks both of them but the tooltips say they add acid damage (bug).

Herbalism could be replaced with a Potions and Scrolls tree. Note that all the following abilities are magical effects aside from Gather Herbs. They do not require anything aside from raw materials (herbs, scrolls, and vials) and a bit of mana to fuel the Alchemical process (re: no lab needed).

Gather Herbs - Much like create ammo. The catch would be that each dungeon would have it's own unique herbs. Underground dungeons would have molds, lichens, and mushrooms for example. More difficult dungeons would have better herbs.
Potion Crafting - By targeting an empty vial (left behind by drinking or disassembling potions or bought from the alchemy store) the alchemist can create a potion from any two different herbs in his backpack. Alternately the alchemist can target a potion instead and break it down into it's core components, leaving behind two herbs and an empty vial (not only good for getting rid of stuff you don't want but also for learning how to create the potion in question). More points invested allow manipulation of more difficult potions. For example potions of lesser healing may be the first tier and greater healing may be fifth.
Scroll Crafting - As Potion Crafting above but uses parchment instead of vials.
Compound Alchemy - The Alchemist learns to combine alchemical effects. By using the ability he could, for example, combine a potion of lesser healing with a scroll of phase door to create a potion that both heals him and causes him to phase door. More points invested would allow the Alchemist to combine higher level effects (using the same criteria as Potion and Scroll crafting use).

That's all I've got for now.

[edge2054]

Forgot to mention something.

The Golem Armour and Two-Handed Prof talents I found confusing. I thought these would allow me to equip gear on my Golem but if they do I haven't figured out how. I'm guessing my Golem actually uses armor and a two-handed weapon like other monsters do but without anyway to see that I feel like the talents aren't doing anything. So maybe some way to inspect his gear or maybe rewording the tooltip to be more descriptive of what happens would clear that up.

[darkgod]

I am glad people seem to like alchemists

You are probably right about gem vision.
I'll fix pound.

The infusions have the wrong desc but I dont understand what you mean they unlock both ??
And it's only the desc that is wrong, the effect works.

Oh and Stone Touch seems to lack a cooldown, do not abuse it please

Your golem indeed uses a body armour and a two handed weapon.
The talents have the exact same effect as the warrior talents (in fact they give the golem the warrior talents).
To equip new weapon & armour on your golem just use Refit Golem at max health, you'll get a dialog to choose what to do.

[edge2054]

I mean at level 4 when I first could pick up Acid Infusion I put a point into it and from then on out Lightning and Frost Infusion appeared to be available. I didn't actually test it but they both went from red to white (at level 4, so it seemed to skip both the level prereq and in the case of Frost Infusion the Lightning Infusion prereq).

And yeah, I mentioned this in another thread but I can't read the whole refit golem description from the m menu. If there's a way to scroll it down I haven't found it and since it doesn't appear in the G menu (like shield wall which I also had this issue with) I hadn't found a work around.

Equipping him with gear though... MWHAHAHA!!!

*edit* I'll let you know what I think of the other talents as I pick them up. Gotta go to see the eye doctor and then I'll probably grind a few more levels to test out the other talents (the golem buff one and Stone Touch are next on my list.)

[QuantumSawdust]

First off, I love the class!

I agree about having the increased explosion radius hurting the golem being a big turn off for adding more to it.

Secondly, it's quite annoying to select enemies by hand with the channel staff ability. Since my golem is almost always the closest creature to me, he is almost always automatically selected after each kill (I've caused the poor guy quite a lot of friendly fire damage so far, due to fighting through a bunch of enemies I'm more powerful then quickly). And regardless, it means I have to select past him and often also past myself to select the next enemy. Having the skill automatically select the closest enemy instead of closest creature would make using it much nicer.

[edge2054]

Channel Staff really makes me miss the repeat last command key from Tome 2 and other roguelikes (the old n key function).

Something that just occurred to me in the shower was how redundant the Channel Staff ability (first point excluded) and the ability after it are. They both just increase staff damage basically and the second ability makes increasing Channel Staff beyond one point pretty pointless since it will apply to your other staff strikes too (unless of course you end up with an abundance of skill points). Maybe the second ability could increase chance to hit with the staff or give you an offensive posture of some kind? I haven't picked it up yet but I expect to miss a lot with the staff daze strike ability at the top of that tree since I'm assuming it doesn't get the same 95% hit rate that Channel Staff does.

Something that would be nice is a Call Golem ability, basically a short range teleport that brought your Golem to you. He's pretty reckless and sometimes I really wish I had him on a tighter leash, especially when I want to toss a bomb into a pack of mobs or use Mount Golem. The tooltip for the Golem Attack Power buff seems to imply that it'll do that but I'm guessing this is just how I'm reading it. Maybe it should recall your Golem and then buff him. (Maybe it already does, I'll find out in a couple of hours).

Alright, really off to the Doctor now.

[darkgod]

I'll fix the targetting and yes invoke golem does summon it to you and make it rage.

[ghostbuster]

Staves damages do not seem to apply. Nature staves should have a poison timed effect when either hitting or chanelling, fire staves should burn, etc. And it does not seem to happen.

Similarly when bombing, there sould be an additional burning effect with fire infusion, freezing effect with Forst Infusion, and it does not seem to happen.

Is it intended?

Killing your golem (which never defends himself) and refitting him is the easiest way to gain experience !!!!!

How is determined the life point of the golem? When recreating exactly the same character, I have very different values (150, 127, 100, etc).

[darkgod]

Lol fixing the exp stuff

Staves & bomb only do the element damage yes. You can use different gems to make your bombs have various effects.

As for the golem's life, it's random at birth

[SerPounce]

Compound Alchemy - The Alchemist learns to combine alchemical effects. By using the ability he could, for example, combine a potion of lesser healing with a scroll of phase door to create a potion that both heals him and causes him to phase door. More points invested would allow the Alchemist to combine higher level effects (using the same criteria as Potion and Scroll crafting use).

That's cool. If you don't want to worry about the "level" of potion/scroll effects you could allow (skill level) items to be combined. I've been trying to come up with Herbalism stuff, but without a whole lot of success. Poison and other harmful herbal effects don't really make sense for the alchemist because the focus on staffs, and raw potion crafting seems uninspired. Here's a few ideas, I'm not sure if they're ready for prime-time, but they might can help trigger some creative thought:

Proper Application (Passive): When you use a potion there is a (15*Skill level)% chance of preserving part of the potion the potion for future use. [alternatively allow the use of a potion (Skill Level) times]

Concentrate Brew (Active, 10 Stamina, no cooldown): combine 10/skill level "lesser" life/mana potions into a "standard" version, or 10/skill level standard life/mana potions into a "greater potion"

Homeopathic supplement (Passive): You develop a specialized Herbal supplement that boosts your body's natural protections:
L1: 50% poison resistance
L2: 50% disease resistance
L3: 25% blindness resistance
L4: 25% confusion resistance
L5: 25% stun resistance

[madmonk]

I have a real problem here, having played 3 of them to around 20 - 25th level.

Essentially the class is a one creature Summoner. With very few drawbacks....

I gave the Golem the best armour I could and the best weapons (early game it was Bill's Maul) and was never ever in serious trouble.

I found it very boring... To the point that I stopped playing the class.

Suggestions (please note these are just suggestions! Do feel free to discard ignore etc)

Tone the Golem down a lot - in terms of health and so on!
Make Refit Golem more expensive so that you don't tend to use it too often - I was just bringing the golem back as soon as it was dead.
Once the Golem dies trash any armour and weapons it has... Including Bill's Maul (as in my case) and so on.
Lower the number of Alchemist Gems that can be created from a gem
Lower the number of talents that affect the Golem.
Make more talents that affect other things.
Seriously consider removing the Golem completely.
Consider forcing the Alchemist to make his Golem - how? From armour. You need a complete set (helmet, body armour and boots). So you can have a leather Golem or an Iron Golem or whatever... Consider allowing the mixing up of armour items as well.

[SerPounce]

I have a real problem here, having played 3 of them to around 20 - 25th level.

Essentially the class is a one creature Summoner. With very few drawbacks....

I gave the Golem the best armour I could and the best weapons (early game it was Bill's Maul) and was never ever in serious trouble.

I found it very boring... To the point that I stopped playing the class.

Suggestions (please note these are just suggestions! Do feel free to discard ignore etc)

Tone the Golem down a lot - in terms of health and so on!
Make Refit Golem more expensive so that you don't tend to use it too often - I was just bringing the golem back as soon as it was dead.
Once the Golem dies trash any armour and weapons it has... Including Bill's Maul (as in my case) and so on.
Lower the number of Alchemist Gems that can be created from a gem
Lower the number of talents that affect the Golem.
Make more talents that affect other things.
Seriously consider removing the Golem completely.
Consider forcing the Alchemist to make his Golem - how? From armour. You need a complete set (helmet, body armour and boots). So you can have a leather Golem or an Iron Golem or whatever... Consider allowing the mixing up of armour items as well.

Ouch! That sounds way too harsh. I got an alchemist to L23 and maxed most of the Golem basics. There was a short period where he was very powerful, but all characters have their ups and downs in power. Mr. Golem was getting beaten on pretty hard in Tol Falas with all the ranged enemies (the charging abilities are nice, but he can still get pummeled, and you have to watch your own neck first).

Remember if you max out your golem early he'll be very powerful, but that's pretty much all you're going to have. That was true of my alchemist around L16-20, I had a .super powerful golem, and then a few wimpy ranged attacks. When my golem was killed I was pretty vulnerable.

[shani]

Make Refit Golem more expensive so that you don't tend to use it too often - I was just bringing the golem back as soon as it was dead.

That sounds reasonable. It should withdraw resources as well as a longer cooldown and stun period.

Once the Golem dies trash any armour and weapons it has... Including Bill's Maul (as in my case) and so on.

This one is harsh...
Anyway, the alchemist class is great and IMHO is the class I enjoy most except hobbit slinger.
I just wish there were more gem types, with different bonuses...

[madmonk]

Anyway, the alchemist class is great and IMHO is the class I enjoy most except hobbit slinger.
I just wish there were more gem types, with different bonuses...

I am glad you like it. I just believe that it needs serious tweaking!

Ouch! That sounds way too harsh. I got an alchemist to L23 and maxed most of the Golem basics. There was a short period where he was very powerful, but all characters have their ups and downs in power. Mr. Golem was getting beaten on pretty hard in Tol Falas with all the ranged enemies (the charging abilities are nice, but he can still get pummeled, and you have to watch your own neck first).

Remember if you max out your golem early he'll be very powerful, but that's pretty much all you're going to have. That was true of my alchemist around L16-20, I had a .super powerful golem, and then a few wimpy ranged attacks. When my golem was killed I was pretty vulnerable.

Yes, my first attempt did that... I maxed my Golem. But the Refit Golem talent is way too cheap and never left me really vulnerable. Master archers are a pain on that I agree!

Take 2 was to attempt to max my combat capabilities and leave the Golem as cannon fodder. Slightly more interesting but limited since there is only a small amount of stuff that does not involve the golem and this is not enough to make it a worthwhile strategy. I still got to level 20 using this method before I quit.

Take 3 was to balance the 2 strategies and so I ended up with a middle of the road type which was equally limited...

Serpounce: did you hate all my suggestions? Or just some?

[SerPounce]

Serpounce: did you hate all my suggestions? Or just some?

Hah, no I certainly didn't hate them all . I agree that making the golem cost more to rebuild would be good. There's a lot of ways you could do that, and sacrificing armor is a good idea (wasn't there something like that in Diablo II?).

The behavior I think we want to see eliminated is: 1. send golem out to kill/be killed 2. rebuild golem, 3. repeat. I'd like to see the golem drop remains when it dies and for there to be a big incentive to go get those remains. Maybe if you don't have the remains you should have to sacrifice armor/gold/something.

What I disagreed with is the implicit idea that the golem should be a smaller part of the class. I think it's an interesting and novel class idea to have a lacky as a major class feature. There a lot of characters in roguelike that summon, but I can't think of one with a permanent lacky as a significant class feature.