Feasible/decent class idea?

[getter77]

Somehow I got to thinking how nifty it is that many classes have "resource" systems to them like Equilibrium, the Sun stuff, and so forth that draw upon different playstyles.

How about a class based, for lack of a more flowery word in keeping with the setting, sadism?

What I'm thinking is a class based around DoT primarily, a variety of them. The "resource" being pain---building with each bit of damage and thereby allowing for a bigger/somewhat more dramatic variety of damage inflicted, while dropping off sharply when a kill is actually scored and rapidly diminishes when not engaged in combat. Something of a Hexer perhaps...an Inquisitor?

Intentionally wanting to keep enemies suffering as long/consistently as possible and/or pulling mobs more willfully than other classes so as to better build power up across them would lend it a unique gameplay feel versus the usual tropes of "isolate and terminate ASAP" that hold across pretty well most of the other classes.

Thoughts? I've not any particulars as to the nitty-gritty, but I'm rather confident DarkGod could come up with some stuff just fine that would fit in with the scheme of things and keep the variety of styles that ToME 4 seems to be going for rolling on along yet further still.

[FACM]

So, the class's key stat would be Constitution, obviously, and probably Magic. This sounds (flavor-wise) like Warlocks for World of Warcraft and, to a lesser extent, Dungeons and Dragons 3.5/4e, though without directly using HP.

The big balance issue here, is that your class's base function is 'do damage to do more damage'. If you let that go without a cap, you end up killing bosses in one shot because you attacked his helpers, and summoned a few creatures you attacked yourself, and dragged down a couple from the floor above, and....

On the other end, if you don't let that scale well enough, and you have to do the above chain-pull to get any value out of the class abilities, the class isn't any fun at all, and sort of becomes masochistic for the player. Which might be thematically appropriate.

[darkgod]

Hum yes.

There are "corruptions" planned, which will be fuelled by life force. A resource that does not regen but is "stolen" from your foes.

[getter77]

Hmm, as opposed to big damage finishers, it might could also incorporate status afflictions of some sort upon certain power thresholds, single target up to crowd control, and so on alongside variety of damage types for resourcefulness. So perhaps, "do damage to do more elaborate/varied damage" as opposed to building up to some kinda gigantic single numeric damage attack to one shot a boss. The hook is how long you can keep them suffering---would lead well in the Achievements section Longest/Most Varied/Biggest Mob Streaks and the like as well---somewhat akin to combos in a fighting game

Seems excessive to allow the Pain Resource to be influenced by one's own Summons though. Key stats sound about right though. Never actually played those others you mention so I'll defer to ya on that front.

Theme wise, versus other Mage-types, perhaps have the Resource growth be more pronounced if in Melee range versus otherwise? Risk the Pain being wrought upon yourself for a change for a boost in the rate and all that.

[Gwai]

An interesting twist! I like it.

[Antagonist]

Hmm, only problem with this is while you're trying to keep them alive and suffering, you're also giving them more opportunity to attack you and deal damage. In keeping with the theme though, it needs some defensive abilities... in the form of debuffs.

Simplest I see is reducing accuracy, or absorbing mana for spellcasters, that kind of thing.

Aura or area of effect spells also fit, just with the actual effect determined by the amount of enemies in the area. If you use your ball debuff on the singular boss he might have a slight drop in accuracy, if you debuff him while hes surrounded by helpers then the effect is much greater. This kind of debuff crowd control is notably missing in the classes so far.

[registeringislame]

How 'bout like a bard class, which gets some (one?) category point to start off and some random known but locked categories to choose from. Probably some stealth stuff and maybe music buffs. Door might make sense too.

[greycat]

ToME has a history of sub-par Bard implementations... maybe ToME 4 will be the one to break the Bard Curse, but I'm not holding my breath.

[darkgod]

lol
Yes well I'm open to good bard ideas

[Canderel]

The big question for me really is ... does a bard do it's damage via magic, or physical?

A bard to me is the one who usually transcribes others' adventures... So I could see a bard being an... NPC... that might be a quest reward, and he is kind always following the player, and maybe autobuffing the player or something... I don't really see them being the great adventurer themselves.

Hmmm

Maybe: Bards could have, confuse/beserk/stun the opponent(s)... So I can imagine a bard having a story about Bill that Bill doesn't want his minions to know. Then they might start attacking him. Or even getting Bill to be your partner. Bill might be the great warrior he transcribes?

I don't see them being toe to toe... But then again, that's my opinion...

[getter77]

Hmm, only problem with this is while you're trying to keep them alive and suffering, you're also giving them more opportunity to attack you and deal damage. In keeping with the theme though, it needs some defensive abilities... in the form of debuffs.

Simplest I see is reducing accuracy, or absorbing mana for spellcasters, that kind of thing.

Aura or area of effect spells also fit, just with the actual effect determined by the amount of enemies in the area. If you use your ball debuff on the singular boss he might have a slight drop in accuracy, if you debuff him while hes surrounded by helpers then the effect is much greater. This kind of debuff crowd control is notably missing in the classes so far.

Makes sense. Given how visual ToME4 is about things, I reckon it nifty to see a rainbow of colored damage numbers and words dancing across the screen each turn----none huge, but cumulatively satisfying. Hurt/cripple/afflict/deprive---but not so much KILL versus a gigantic fireball or beam.

[Antagonist]

As for bards, I don't see much use in that. They MIGHT work in party situation with buffs/debuffs helping the party as they tank and deal damage, but I don't see the lute strummer walking up to a dragon and slaying it by hitting it upside the head with the lute.

What I DO see is a charisma-fueled warrior. Dashing Swordsman, Charming Rogue, something like that. I see it more as a rogue subclass than a class on its own.

An underprepared hero taking on the forces of darkness and winning based purely on the fact that he's the HERO and through the power of narrative. Think Robin Hood, any protagonist from any pirate movie or Order of the Stick's bard. Where a warrior is about armor and big weapons, a mage is about raw power, this kind of rogue is all about STYLE. And it works.

4E for instance allows the rogue to add his charisma modifier to alot of his attacks, and Order of the Stick has the Dashing Swordsman where you gain bonus attack and damage if you can tell a pun with every attack.

In ToME I see a mix of auras and debuffs and buffs being charisma fueled, perhaps with limited amount of songs. Character will still be a rogue though and play as one, though perhaps minus the stealth component.

I don't see any problem with other classes learning the skill tree eventually tho. Cost is another attribute to invest in for its advantages.

[Vanguard]

What about a class whose mana-equivalent doesn't recharge while they're in a dungeon?

They'd be really strong at full power, but they'd get worn down as they progress through dungeons, and it would be a test of endurance. Maybe a sun mage who only gets recharged out in open daylight or a psionic who needs to clear their mind in a peaceful area or something like that.

Yeah the arcane blade and shadowblade don't recharge their mana naturally, but you can use rings/potions to replenish it, and they're hybrid fighters instead of pure mages anyway.

[greycat]

Maybe a sun mage who only gets recharged out in open daylight or a psionic who needs to clear their mind in a peaceful area or something like that.

Sounds a whole lot like the Equilibrium resource used by the Wilder characters (Summoner, Wyrmic).

[Vanguard]

I don't play summoners on principle, but can't you recharge equilibrium while inside of a dungeon? I don't care if the idea is conceptually similar, just as long as it plays differently.