Ammo creation

[Jaorin]

Is there any benefit to taking more than one point in this talent? I don't see any obvious difference with more points.

I have noticed that dungeon level might make a difference. If you go into a higher level dungeon, there seems to be a greater chance of creating better arrows. It might be a good strategy, in the early game, to go to a really high level dungeon, make arrows, and immediately exit. Seems pretty low risk with good potential rewards.






edited to add question mark to first sentence.

[paboperfecto]

It looks like each point in Arrow Creation increases your chance of success by 10% + 10% base. So with the first point you have 20% chance of making arrows. With five points you have 60% chance. I haven't looked at the code to see how the arrow type is determined but even if there are no other differences at five points you'll have three times more chances at getting those dragon bone arrows.

[paboperfecto]

The probabilities for the type of ammo is determined by the current level, which I think is some combination of the level (trollshaws (1) for example) and your character level the first time you entered the dungeon (zone) compared to the level range for the type of ammo. You can look in stdout.txt in the base tome 4 directory just after you enter a level and see the probabilities for each item. It looks like the item generation code will try 500 times to make arrows and return the first type of arrow it creates. If it never creates an arrow you lose out so those probabilities that I mentioned above are actually lower depending on how likely it is to create arrows.

For my current character on level 3 of trollshaws after defeating the dungeons under the tower (so character level 6) I have the following chances:

2000/76654 of making elm arrows
223/76654 of making ash
52/76654 of making yew
29/76654 of making elven-wood
21/76654 of making dragonbone

Which gives me a 3% chance of making arrows each time it tries to generate an item. If I remember my probability right that actually gives you very near zero chance of failing 500 times (.97^500) which means you are virtually guaranteed some arrows if you pass the above 20-60% chance.

[Jaorin]

Hmmm. This would indicate that there is absolutely no reason to take more than one point in the skill. You just need a little patience and you can have enough for an entire dungeon dive before you start it. You could also use the skill every time it gets off of cooldown. You should never run out of arrows.

[madmonk]

At this stage take 1 point in ammo creation only, you don't need more.

I hope that this will change later to make it worthwhile investing more points in it.

[Jaorin]

Are there any other skills that aren't worth taking more than one point in? Meditation comes to mind.

[Frumple]

I'd probably say berserk, myself; the initial boost to hit is useful, but after that the penalties just go up too quickly. Doesn't help that it's a lot easier to boost to-hit and damage than armor and defense. Possibly any of the stunning talents, or ones whose debuff effect doesn't increase with additional points, at least providing you've got higher damage multiplier talents available.

I actually prefer to put an extra point into meditation every once in a bit. Equilibrium starts jumping fast once you've got more than a few abilities you use regularly, and points in meditation both increase the point drop and reduce stun duration; it helps that the cooldown on the thing is way too bloody long for me to wait for it. Spend far too much time waiting for rest periods to pass already to bugger around with holding 5 until a clock wears down. Same deal with ammo creation, honestly; there's a pointed increase in success as points get put in it, and the cooldown is way too bloody long to bork about slamming into a wall to wait for it. Arcane feed's another like that, though the restoration boost from that is really freaking noticeable; with 5 in it and arcane combat, it's pretty easy to keep spewing melee deathspells without really having to slow down.

You probably don't really need more than a point in ID (but getting it up to 3 makes things much easier) or Vision or a buggerall junkload of that sorta' talent. Honestly, there's not terribly many talents that don't work pretty well with just a point in them, at least if you've got the applicable stat score to back 'em up.

[Shoob]

yeah, meditation is not worth more than 1 point as it isnt a combat related talent, so you can always use it and waste time until you can use it again as needed, though at higher levels it reduces the stun and increases the amount of equillibrium lost. maybe at higher levels it could regain hp/mana/stamina faster, and reduce the potency of/cure diseases and poisons, but right now it just isnt worth more than 1 point. hmmmm.... now I am thinking it isnt really needed (we have the wilderness after all)

[elfinja]

i find precise strikes isn't worth rising above one point.

[Final Master]

Yes, I would say most all of the passive abilities aren't worthy yet to raise above the initial level. I just hope nothing like the "one skill point wonders" doesn't happen again.

[Shoob]

i find precise strikes isn't worth rising above one point.

then you haven't seen it at later levels basically you get almost 200 to hit with it on (total, not just from it), and attack 1.5 times as fast. (probably more if you use the right amulet)

Yes, I would say most all of the passive abilities aren't worthy yet to raise above the initial level. I just hope nothing like the "one skill point wonders" doesn't happen again.

actually passive skills are much better at higher levels than lower levels, just that your stats are low so they seem not as good at the start. that applies to all of them, the only ones I havent tested out much are the arcane blade, but I assume it is similar.

[Final Master]

Ah, alright. I'll be sure to try and live long enough to max one out then. Thanks for the heads up.

[Frumple]

Re: Blade's passives, most of them don't have a negative effect, so other than the talent point cost there's no major reason not to get 'em. Blade's sustainable are arguably more important, though; you want to get inner power to at least level 3. Takes a while, but it starts paying its own cost around that point.

Question, though: I thought precise strike slowed down your attack, not sped it up? Higher speed = slower attack, right? At least daggers are a 1 while greatswords are at 1.2, iirc, so I figured the precise strike multiplier was making me attack slower.

Still worth putting a point in to unlock that 100+ tohit for what whuzzit, 5-10 turns at lvl 5? talent, though. That one was rockin'.

[Jaorin]

That's interesting. I hadn't realized that it was slowing me down.

[Shoob]

yeah, I miss-read it hehehe, but yeah I dont realize it is slower in attack as I mainly use it when I play fighter (riposte) and that is free and not subject to the attack limitation I think.