Skeleton spell points

[IckyThingBane]

I've never played with a skeleton, but I wanted to make a really, really evil character and thought that a Lich would be fun. I rolled up a Dark Elf skeleton Demonologist, planning Necromancy and Melkor worship, only to discover that I didn't even get enough spell points to cast Demon Blade at level 20 or so. Irritated, I looked back at the skeleton template and my jaw dropped as I saw that skeletons get a -30% spell point modification.

What?!?!

This is a race modifier that encompasses Dracolichs, Crypt Creeps, Hand Drujs and Vecna himself! Almost everything with its bones on display to the world can cast a barrage of nastiness at you.

I'm not asking for much; 0% would be fine. I think evil guys already get a rough enough deal, with only one god to choose from and no way of doing the ultimate end. I also don't think there's any thematic justification for putting skeletons on a magical par with zombies.

Thoughts?

[Yottle]

Skeletons get great resists. They need to get nailed on something to balance them out.

We need an end game for characters that wear the ring- they slog through the Void, find Eru, and if they can kill him the entire universe dissolves into raw chaos. Maybe it should delete the game off your machine at the same time.

[Valathor]

We need an end game for characters that wear the ring- they slog through the Void, find Eru, and if they can kill him the entire universe dissolves into raw chaos. Maybe it should delete the game off your machine at the same time.

Man, that would be freakin cool...

As far as Lichs go I would think a Zombie would be closer than a skeleton; then again it's kinda a mix, a zombie/skeleton with intelligence...

I do think that skeletons should be mindless, but not that mindless; maybe some kind of magical essence trapped in the bones (weird idea), but at least 0% not -30% ...

Maybe a new racial modifier could be Liches, an undead race that specializes in magic....

[elcugo]

The best undead modifier for spellcasters is the vampire. They get 0% spell points, but they get great resist and a very funny and somtimes useful blood sucking attack.

[IckyThingBane]

Skeletons get great resists. They need to get nailed on something to balance them out.

The best undead modifier for spellcasters is the vampire. They get 0% spell points, but they get great resist

Says it all really - vampires have always had it easy. They have even better resists (nether and dark instead of shards), better base hit points, better base spell points, better stat modifiers, better starting skills, life drain... I really don't think this is a balance issue, it's just skeleton discrimination!

[madmonk]

I really don't think this is a balance issue, it's just skeleton discrimination!

Them bones, them bones them dry bones!

[rakanishu]

By all means, give the bones more mana!

The lich is one of my favourite monster concepts, but there is no good way to make a lich-like character (vampire ? bah, lowly servants of the mighty lich!; zombie ? you must be kidding!; spectre comes closer but clearly skeleton would be the sub-race of choice).

I dont see a balance issue at all. Skeleton is a below average choice for any class that would profit from more mana. If people disagree, it would be easy to increase the xp penalty.

[Gwai]

I'd say that it's good to have harder choices as well as easier ones. We can't all be yeeks, after all .

[Xandor Tik'Roth]

Skeletons get great resists. They need to get nailed on something to balance them out.

The best undead modifier for spellcasters is the vampire. They get 0% spell points, but they get great resist

Says it all really - vampires have always had it easy. They have even better resists (nether and dark instead of shards), better base hit points, better base spell points, better stat modifiers, better starting skills, life drain... I really don't think this is a balance issue, it's just skeleton discrimination!

Good point, but Vampires do have a pretty big disadvantage in that they can't go out into the sun until they get light resist.

[IckyThingBane]

Good point, but Vampires do have a pretty big disadvantage in that they can't go out into the sun until they get light resist.

Certainly true for new players, but you can guarantee to have light resistance within about 20 mins of starting the game just by killing a few dragons and then raiding the Orc Caves (which I pretty much do with all my characters anyway). I think of it more as an idiosyncrasy than a disadvantage.

I agree with you to the extent that if it were harder to obtain res light equipment in a potential ToME 3, then vampires would be a little more balanced.

[Yottle]

Even going out into the sun isn't that big a deal. If the sun rises while you are wandering in the wilderness you can read a scroll of darkness and rest for a few thousand turns until it sets.

[TobiasParker]

Maybe it is just me but whenever i don't pick a skeleton i cannot find anything to Res Shards to save my life. Quite literally.

[Gwai]

Even when not using a skeleton, I tend to find that one of the hardest resistances to get.

[Shoob]

Even when not using a skeleton, I tend to find that one of the hardest resistances to get.

mid-late game you mean? that is a fairly easy one to get covered early game because of that armour in the orc village (I am pretty sure it resists shards)

[Yottle]

I agree that shards resistance is tough to get.

As Shoob points out, Thalk has resist shards, but it is surprising how few other artifacts do. The only one I am likely to find by mid-game is Arvedui, and that is generally not a great armor choice. Most of the time I would prefer Thalk. Celebrimbor is a decent headgear, but by the time I find it I am going to be using something better. Numenor and the Boots of the Machine have obvious disadvantages. Naturebane is a joke. Good luck finding the artifact PDSM.

There is no way I am going to waste a ring slot on a single resistance. That leaves a randart.