ToME Wiki wanted/needed?

Message

Neil · #31 Post by **Neil** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 4:06 pm

http://senseis.xmp.net/?DesigningAGoServer

http://senseis.xmp.net/?MessageBoard

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ThreadMode

I don't see how a wiki is any harder to use than phpbb, in total.

Maylith · #32 Post by **Maylith** » Sat Jun 19, 2004 4:38 pm

Thanks, Neil. Don't get me wrong, btw: I like the idea of a wiki very much.

I like the formatting on senseis a bit more than the original wiki board. A direct quote from your third link (and in fact, I'd just read that page about a 20 minutes ago!):

ThreadMode quite often creates ThreadMess, and can bring Wiki to WikiChaos if not used properly.

I would assume that prevention of the above lies in both proper configuration and proper use.

From that same page:

We ostensibly frown on ThreadMode because, well, there's usually more than one thread and sometimes it becomes difficult to follow them all.. We all practice it, because it's part of the free flow of ideas that occurs here. There's a contradiction there, of course; one of the best things that can happen on the Wiki is when a page starts off in ThreadMode, a consensus is established, and the page gradually, over time, becomes a DocumentMode page.

I can see that happening frequently in a ToME wiki. OTOH, one of the things I frequently enjoy about this forum are the personal touches. I just hope those can be preserved, though I'm just not sure how. (And that is not at all implying that it's impossible, just that I'm currently very uneducated about the possibilities.)

Neil · #33 Post by **Neil** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:02 am

I think our policy on the ToME wiki would be that we do NOT discourage thread mode. Certain pages would naturally evolve into document mode, but social pages would not.

As for markup, yes, it's touches like that which are leading me to believe that a wiki is no harder to use than a phpBB forum even for discussions, and is likely easier to use. I believe SL is based on MoinMoin, which is the top candidate engine right now: http://moin.sourceforge.net/

I'll see about setting one up tonight.

Neil · #34 Post by **Neil** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:07 am

http://tome.hakubi.us/

Here you go.

amaurea · #35 Post by **amaurea** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 4:10 pm

I don't like how it requires a FirstnameLastname. I use amaurea, in all lowercase, on the internet, and I would like to continue to do so. I could do AmaurEa, but I'd rather not. Is there a way to get around this?

BauMog · #36 Post by **BauMog** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:40 pm

amaurea wrote:I don't like how it requires a FirstnameLastname. I use amaurea, in all lowercase, on the internet, and I would like to continue to do so. I could do AmaurEa, but I'd rather not. Is there a way to get around this?

Yup, just use ["amaurea"] if you want to link to your wiki home page.

amaurea · #37 Post by **amaurea** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:25 pm

But the registration would not let me proceed without a WikiName.

BauMog · #38 Post by **BauMog** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:31 pm

amaurea wrote:But the registration would not let me proceed without a WikiName.

Ah, I see what you mean. Well, I don't know if it is possible to disable that requirement. Perhaps Neil can comment on that.

muscle · #39 Post by **muscle** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:41 pm

gustav wrote: My vote is to have both the forum and a Wiki - they serve very different purposes.

I just wanted to say that I totally agree!
A discussion forum like this is very nice, but when you look for information a wiki site is better.

I don't really think that people would monitor the wiki like this forum. Looking by now and then even if you're not looking for something particular would rather be fun than "oh my, yet another site to visit".

There's probably a nice system which allows a user to do something similiar to watching a topic on this forum. For instance, create ["Brass Lantern"] (we assume it does not exist at that time) and edit it to "Need info upon refueling" or whatever, then mark it as requested.

People who like to submit, would see the request and do so. To prevent any trolls around, who want to ruin the informative site, one idea would be to remove the request itself X hours after last update or when the original author removes the request flag.

Nerdanel · #40 Post by **Nerdanel** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:46 pm

I must say I MUCH prefer the current messageboard.

- The grammar enthusiast in me absolutely hates those "WikiNames". They look malformed and distracting, and they are harder to read than if they were grammatical. Spaces between words were invented for a reason!

- It is my firm opinion that the brain-powered threading/easy searching combination is superior to the easy threading/brain-powered searching. If the people are discussing five different things under one topic, it is a sign that one needs five topics. If you are following more or less real-time a threaded discussion thread that lasts several days and has several subthreads you're going to get very annoyed if you're at all like me. I like to find the latest post I read and continue straight down. (I have read Neil speaking positively of the r.g.r.a web interface. I remain mystified.)

- It has been scientifically proven that black on white is not the ideal choice for reading text. The current messageboard is much better in this respect. The font is better too. Also the better separation between posts made by different people allows one to better take in the main points of the whole screen with a glance.

- It is easy to suppose that limitless subcategories make finding information easier and faster. This is less true than one might think. Because different people's mental models differ, as the number of categories and subcategories increases one must more and more think where some other person might have put what they are searching for. (Are horoscopes "entertainment" or "recreation" or "science" or something else?) In addition, the monstrosities called WikiNames are slower to scan than grammatical category/topic names or ones with underscores.

Nerdanel · #41 Post by **Nerdanel** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:59 pm

I think I'll add that I agree with muscle and Gustav about the wiki and the board serving different purposes. I think plain html would probably be ideal for info, but since that's hard to automate, I guess a wiki is better.

But I think this forum is better for information than the wiki is for discussion.

muscle · #42 Post by **muscle** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:13 pm

oh, it's up already! silly me, I missed the link :)
good job there! looks nice!

Atarlost · #43 Post by **Atarlost** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:31 pm

It will get more traffic if a link is placed on the ToME main page.

Maylith · #44 Post by **Maylith** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:04 am

Nerdanel wrote:I must say I MUCH prefer the current messageboard.

- The "grammar nazi" in me absolutely hates those "WikiNames". They look malformed and distracting, and they are harder to read than if they were grammatical. Spaces between words were invented for a reason!

I am halfway through setting my user preferences on the wiki, and I noticed an option for inserting a space into the display of wiki names.

- It has been scientifically proven that black on white is not the ideal choice for reading text.

There are also several themes available. I haven't experimented with them yet, but methinks there will be some variation there.

muscle · #45 Post by **muscle** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:52 am

Nerdanel wrote:- The "grammar nazi" in me absolutely hates those "WikiNames". They look malformed and distracting, and they are harder to read than if they were grammatical. Spaces between words were invented for a reason!

Did you try ["space between words"] yet or are you just a nazi? :P

Nerdanel wrote: - It is easy to suppose that limitless subcategories make finding information easier and faster. This is less true than one might think. Because different people's mental models differ, as the number of categories and subcategories increases one must more and more think where some other person might have put what they are searching for. (.

Okay, I agree on the mental models. But not on them slowing down. Do you waste your time on the internet without ever searching? How would you find something you barely know of if it wasn't for google or altavista?

So, I heard someone mentioning runes and runecrafting. Now, would I go for the class submenu or the spells submenu? Or Items? Powers? Magic? Where would the best contributor go?

If there's a good wiki writer, he/she would probably set up relevent links between pages. But the most important thing is the searching. Duh, search for horoscopes and you will find it. Or search for runecrafting. You'd find different pages containing the word in /Classes, /Runecrafter, /Runecrafting, /Runes, /Spelltypes, etc

ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

ToME Wiki wanted/needed?

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