Just layer your defense bro

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trungaczne
Higher
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:48 pm

Just layer your defense bro

#1 Post by trungaczne »

Here's some random mook in the last dungeon in the orc campaign hitting me for >1700 damage in one turn after 70% phys res and trained reaction.

90% crit chance, 252% crit multiplier, 70% phys pen. This is a mal'eyal campaign end game PC on a mob.

https://imgur.com/a/yEBGVFX

Chattius
Thalore
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:59 am
Location: Wetzlar, Hessen, Germany

Re: Just layer your defense bro

#2 Post by Chattius »

Speaking about layered defenses - I still not really know in which order they work
I played a fun character in normal mode while at hospital. I had the idea of a shield in right hand and tentacles in the left. It played nicely. So i did some improvements to play nightmare. It was easy. Then i stumpled over the potion for Rak'shor's Cunning prodigy.
If using it to turn into a ghoul no hit will be more than 50% of maximal hitpoints. Webs of Fate takes 30% of the remaining damage. Solipsism reduces max hitpoints which is nice in this case and eats even more remaining damage and gives global speed. Necrosis reduces max hitpoints even more. Osmosis shield, shield block every three rounds from demonic madness, 21% resist all from static shock, flat damage reduction from blood shield, heavy armour ...
When i have time again (currently busy with zither training for art school) i have to understand in which way the layers of the characters defense work together. What is first, second, ...
My insane winner shield + tentacle
https://te4.org/characters/3263/tome/95 ... 0ed485bcea

ooli
Halfling
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:12 am

Re: Just layer your defense bro

#3 Post by ooli »

Chattius wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 8:03 am Speaking about layered defenses - I still not really know in which order they work..
Thanks to Tradewind_Rider and Jenx, the order is as follow (I updated the CallBackOnTakeDamage list, as of 1.7.4):

1., Premonition (just gives Resistance by damage type, what will trigger later)
2., Wards
3., callbackOnTakeDamageBeforeResists talents
4., Affinity healing calculation
5., Resistances by entity type
6., Resistances by damage type
7., Psionic Shields
8., Blocking from Shields
9., Forge Shield
10., Abyssal Shield
11., Antimagic Shield
12., Flat damage reduction
13., Roll With It prodigy
14., Reduction against unseen attackers
15., Gloom-Sanctuary
16., Predator-Mark Prey
17., Flat damage cap (Ghoul is here)
18., CallbackOnTakeDamage talents (not the correct order):
-Infestation (corruption/rot sustain cd15)
-Elemental Discord calculated here
-Shared agony (crimson templar)
-Self Judgement (self-hatred)
-ForceField (psionic/absorbtion cd 50)
-Inner Power Shield ( spell/enhancement passif cd10)
-Agile Defense (technique/agility Passif)
-Trained Reactions (technique/mobility sustain cd5)
-Stormshield
-Prismatic Shield2
-Webs of Fate (chronomancy/fate weaving cd12)
-Energy Decomposition (chronomancy/energy sustain cd10)
-chant of Resistance
-Curse of Madness (CoolDown reduction threshold calculated here)
-Warden Focus (chronomancy/temporal guardian cd6)
-Temporal Fugue (chronomancy/timeline threading cd24)
-Brawler block shield
-Amethyst of Sanctuary (artifact 25% damage reduction effect)
-Tarrasca (artefact armor)
- The Jolt (Artefact, Damage threshold retribution calcul here)

19., Absolute Resistance

OnTakeHit:

20., Invulnerability (Time Prison)
21., Cancel damage chance
22., Phase Shift
23., Retribution Shield (celestial/guardian CD10)
24., Incoming damage reduction (Snipe)
25., Mitosis (wildgift/Ooze sustain cd10)
26., Displacement Shield
27., Time Shield
28., Damage Shield
29., Force of Will-Deflection
30., Ice Cube Damage Absorption
31., Solipsism-Dismissal (psionic/solipsism passif)
32., Resonance Field
33., If Cauterize triggered and we are invulnerable, damage value goes here into the effect
34., Solipsism damage to psi is calculated here
35., Clone on hit (e.g. Ooze enemies)
36., Solipsism psi damage is applied here
37., Second Life
38., Eldritch Stone
39., Stone Link
40. ## callbackOnHit (not sure of order)
- Ligthing web (Steamtech/Magnetism cd18 last 4 turn)
- Tenacity
- osmosis shield (corruption/DoomShield sustain cd15)
- grinding shield (steamtech/battlefield management sustain cd5 the melee dmg reduction part)
- link of pain
- reality smearing (chronomancy/Flux sustain cd10)
- contingency
- guardian unity (chronomancy/temporal guardion passif cd10)
- subcutaneous metallisation
- shieldsmaiden (if equipped)

41., Unstoppable
Last edited by ooli on Tue Jun 30, 2026 4:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.
I play roguelike on twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/edmondreims

Tryble
Thalore
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:53 pm

Re: Just layer your defense bro

#4 Post by Tryble »

Yet another instance of hilariously high DMG/APR, crit mult, boosted global speed, throwing a multihit talent and obliterating a player in one go.
This is easily the most dangerous kind of enemy in ToME, and unfortunately the damage output of some of these guys is so busted that there's nearly no attainable amount passive defenses that can save you. Hell, stunning these guys sometimes isn't even enough to make their damage survivable.

/shrug
Pronounced try-bull, not tree-bell

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