Thoughts on Annihilators (Insane +)

[Peep]

Having played around with Annihilators a bit, I quite like the concept of the class but find it runs into a lot of issues that, unfortunately, make the class excessively difficult to play on higher tiers.

Steamtech / Magnetism:

This tree, should you use a shield (and is the only tree that interacts with a shield) seems to demand a 5/1/5 for using a shield. In theory, should you have a billion class points, you could even 5/5/5/5 to maximize how much you get out of each of the good talents but, unfortunately, Annihilators have a heavy, heavy class-point crunch of key abilities to survive.

Sadly, without access to Shield Combat, you must manually block which will take a turn. In a lot of cases, until you get a good shield that blocks many resists, you won't get that luxury.

Steamtech / Demolition:

Another tree that almost demands 5/5/5/5 in everything, though you can probably get away with a 1/5 or even a 5/5. The first two talents are amazing and Reactive Armor gives you a ton of eHP. Sapper, too, dramatically gives you a ton of free damage when using the fire-augment. Unfortunately, it's just a lot of class points to sink into something that doesn't super return good results until you find good ammo. Except Reactive Armor, which is an amazing and Key ability.

Steamtech / Gadgets:

Even for a class that wants to use guns you can mostly ignore this tree, though it's heavily recommended to dip in for Exoskeleton, which sits at a flat 50% damage reduction so long as your exoskeleton has HP. Likely, you can get away with 1/1 this tree but a 1/5 is a very nice defensive boost. But, again, this is a lot of class points on sheer defensive options.

Steamtech / Heavy Weapons:

Heavy Weapons have a flaw where their utility is good, but their damage is not. Again, one can get fantastic defensive utility by dipping 1/1/5 and reaping the Evasion from Flamethrower or the life regen from Boltgun, but your damage is very under-par. Heavy Weapons Expertise doesn't give you super good returns for leveling outside of Boltgun, and if you max that then you're at 1/5/5. Safety Override feels nice, but is a middling-damage luxury spend on a class so comedically starved on where their points need to go.

Steamtech / Turrets:

A fantastic early game crutch that simply do not return a great investment the deeper you get. The scaling on Steampower isn't enough to turn them into monsters (and, given how early you can max out the turrets, this is understandable). Sadly, even with Overdrive and Upgrade the turrets will, at most, get a couple shots out before detonating. Turrets, also unfortunately, seem to run into an issue where the mobs will prefer to walk away from them if they're between you and the mob, considering them an obstacle and not an enemy (unless they attack). For faster enemies, this means your turrets range will not really do anything for them.

Steamtech / Miasma Engine:

A fantastic tree that that seems to demand a 5/5/5 in defensive utility alone. It's damage is mediocre, but how much healing reduction and talent fail it gives is extremely good on higher difficulties.

Steamtech / Artillery:

Another very good tree, but now we finally have a taste of offensive power! Rocket pod's scaling only makes it more effective against fighting larger enemies with the damage scaling being underwhelming. Incidinary Powder, on the other hand, makes the shots really pack a punch! Lock on and, sadly, Seeker Warhead simply don't return enough on investment to make them worth it.

Steamtech / Mecharachnid:

As a summon, it suffers many of the flaws of the Worm That Walks from the Writhing One in that it, when you get it, is fairly worthless and requires a lot of skill points invested to become decent. Mecharachnid Piloting is a fantastic combat steroid but unfortunately is only truly good when paired with Artillery and Demolitions.

===

As a whole, Annihilator is a very confused class that seems to want to do many things but being unable to excel at any of them. It wants to do a lot of damage! But it has no abilities that do decent damage. It has a dozen and a half fantastic abilities for surviving, but investing in them leaves you so sparse for damage that (and steam!) that any protracted fight will leave you dead.

Nor, can you, focus entirely on the offense to really eek out some good damage, as the defensive options are the only thing standing behind your paper-thin frame and the astral plane. This class doesn't really take off until 30+, but with it's current numbers it's going to be very difficult for someone to reach it on harder difficulties.

[Kuroto]

Just a thought, and what I'm going for on my current Insane run for Annihilator, Adept might be a really solid option on them to deal with spreading yourself thin on class points. Testing it now, and I'll get back later on it, but given how many different talents they want to invest into and the tinker talent levels also scaling with adept it seems like it has a lot of potential. I'm currently looking at a Cornac Antimagic going Adept and probably PES.

[GlassGo]

OP is totally outdated.
Scaling for Flamethrower and Boltgun wasn't working at all, that's why damage was bad.
Magnetism is your main defence, invest in it if you need 300+ flat damage resistance.
If not - skip it.

You can't ignore Gadgets because it's your damage source for Artillery.
Exo is good (will be when fixed). Last skill is short term Cauterize.

Heavy Weapon is the core of class - mobility, damage avoidance, debuff removing and prolonging - what's not to like?
Shocker works like a magic - you will one-twoshot everything till 25 lvl.
1/1/1/1 is enough to carry you till 25 lvl.

Turrets just noobtrap.

You don't really need to invest 5/5 in many skills, they works fine with 2-3 points invested. And of course you can't take everything - you need to abandon some skill trees and like, make a choice.

PS Also Kruz - if you are reading this, you are playing Anni lika a complete noob. Someone tell him that, it's pain to watch.

[GlassGo]

Turrets are the best thing this class has and that post was so wrong I went and won and made a guide just to say with certainty that you are wrong about that. Not just Flame Turret even, Hunker Down is ridiculous as well. The only reason you would have to abandon skill trees is because you want lmao survival still isn't fixed.

Lmao but that's doesn't prove anything dude, seriously, you can win with anti-magic Archmage - does it prove it's hte way to play Archmage?
Your next words just proving my words

So I'm guessing you got past Annihilator's bad early game the same way you got past everything else in your time in ToME, by savescumming, correct? Your post is about as meaningful as someone complaining that mex's start rebalance made Madness into Normal.

Bad early game? really? all you need to do is to equip any robe for resistance boost as the mages are major threat.
Anni has easiest early game - equip the Democratizer aka Shockstaff, and you have won.

I respect Kruz as little as the next person but go tell him he's a noob yourself please. Did you forget the password to your discord account or something?

Exactly. Stupid reptilod discord suddenly wants my cellphone number which not going to happen anytime soon.
So I have new one instead. So of cource I'll tell him when I can.

[GlassGo]

Yeah, *I* can win with antimagic archmage. Not you.

Why it's matter if my dick is foot longer than yours?
Seriosly?
Have no idea about the rest you "said" duuuuude.
Also no, after this I won't give you anything.

[GlassGo]

My dick absolutely is bigger than

Don't make excuses it only makes things worse.
It simply is and was like that always, that's why it doesn't matter where we are.

it's bad form to not back up a statement with a justification by actually having even a single win at all.

Is it? I could won at least few times - I decided not to, because then ToME4 would be less appealing to me.
Until I didn't win I have incentive to play it further.
If you aren't like this it's OK, people are different, and we are more different than other.

Also, jokes aside - people could do wrong, win Insane and that doesn't make their claims less wrong, isn't it?
That's about me too - you can always said that about my win anyway.

Also, if Mex is really died that's bad. Feel sorry.

[Mankeli]

Dunno if there has been some changes after this thread was made to anni already but this sure doesn't make any sense in the context of 1.6.4. I won anni on insane/rl and the turrets don't really fall off ever for example. Also, considering the OP it's prolly good to mention that I don't need 5/5 in save scumming to be able to win.

[trungaczne]

learning to play this class, I am only on Nightmare, but how do you scale turret defense? Late game my turrets are dying even with Hunker Down before I could put the shield on them and I can't scale their defensive stats.

[Mckertis]

Heavy Weapon is the core of class - mobility, damage avoidance, debuff removing and prolonging - what's not to like?

The fact that you have 3 weapons with 3 different situational functions each. I certainly cant remember what weapon does what in which situation, forcing me to read the damn descriptions over and over again. Terrible design overall.

[megazatoth]

Really unhappy with the spider robot, it dies instantly, the shield talents seem to ignore it despite the description, the armour and steamsaw bug out and get constantly unequipped, and I thought I could at least use it as a debuff-bot but the power is outright pathetic and nothing sticks. Also rocket pods wouldn't even fire in 1.7 without editing game files...