Well, well, well... this is something.
EDIT: I just added everything below. Short version is: it's still in beta so there are some issues with balance and mechanics but overall, it's pretty cool. Unorthodox defense, riskier play style, shockingly resilient, can be a tough start, has a lot of potential builds, and absolutely crushes mobs.
1.7 Beta Necromancer review... In progress (spoilers?)
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1.7 Beta Necromancer review... In progress (spoilers?)
Last edited by Delmuir on Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:06 am, edited 5 times in total.
Re: 1.7 Beta Necromancer review... In progress
Okay:
1. Skeletons...
I like this category and they are quite resilient but Lord of Skulls does underwhelm. It requires max investment to gain the new skills and that's too big an investment for the payoff. The biggest issue with Lord of Skulls is that it doesn't work on the Bone Giant, which is quite disappointing. Because the skeleton level scales off the of talent level (and magic??) and not your character level, it's pretty all or nothing.
My suggestion is to make it work on a Bone Giant OR have the "Lord of Skulls" grant bonuses to your other skeletons or even both.
For the life of me, I can't find much utility in Bone Wall. In theory it's okay but in practice, it underwhelms.
The real loss here is the Bone Giant... there's just not really much call to use them in a minion build.
2. Master of Flesh...
I love this category. I'd suggest at least 4/4/3/0 (the last skill currently doesn't really work). The skills have synergy (if Putrescent Liquefaction is active, any ghouls that die, maybe including enemies but I can't tell yet, add to its duration) and immediate utility but they also scale well.
There is a slight problem in that it's not quite fine-tuned as the lifespan of the ghouls is quite short and they spawn on sight so you have to be right on top of the enemy for them to do any good in combat. That's fine for the freebie that spawns but when you use the active ability, they're summoned right on top of you and so they have little combat utility and really are just meat shields. This wouldn't be a problem except the duration of Putrescent Liquefaction is short enough that it can be tricky to make use of it (though it is quite a strong skill), given the cost.
My suggestion is to recover souls when using PL or to add a duration reset to Surge of Undeath in the Master Necro category. Maybe just cap Putrescent Liquefaction at 3 ghouls and 3 souls...
The synergy with Corpse Explosion is rather elegant... you get a free ghoul once combat starts so you can immediately dispense with it using PL and then immediately summon ghouls with CotM and then immediately use Corpse Explosion. You'll do good damage, apply status effects to enemies, and refresh the PL's duration.
Discarded Refuse doesn't really work... you can't turn it on until you have an active ghoul, which really only happens in combat and so you have to spent an entire turn to do it but by that point you might already have been afflicted with who knows what status effects and then it shuts off if you have no more ghouls. As a result, it's a 0 even though it's a cool skill in theory. It needs to be able to be sustained all the time and I don't really see any reason for it to be shut off at all. It needs some rethinking but the mechanic of it is solid as you can use ghouls for damage or defense and sometimes both.
The synergy with Bone Yard is solid but ultimately, this category is all about Putrescent Liquefaction and doing whatever it takes to keep that up and running.
3. Nightfall... a little underwhelming. The first skill in a cheap beam so it's a gimme. The second skill is costly but... almost a requirement. It's not the damage but the banes. If one lands and you add in a hex or a dire plague or a disease then Rigor Mortis becomes absolutely devastating. Sadly, I think it's a 1/1/0/0 category.
4. Dreads... this is a good category. It requires very little investment (3/1/1/1 seems about right) and starts unlocked. The dreads are as promised... annoying to the enemies. They're hard to kill and inflict status effects. Again, the minion scaling isn't ideal, in my opinion but the skills have excellent synergy as your Dread can heal with minion deaths (and with ghouls, you'll have plenty) and can be made invincible for a bit. My only issue is that when the Dreads turn invisible, you also can't see them... perhaps there could be an animation that lets you know where your Dread is...
What would be nice is if the 3rd skill in Nightfall also triggered with hexes or even any status effect... now that'd be worthwhile!
5. Grave...
This is a really solid damage category with some really useful mechanics with Corpselight. My only critique is the capstone skill improves Corpselight but not enough to tempt more than 1 point. What'd be nice is if it also increased the damage of the rest of the Grave skills. That'd be tempting!
6. Glacial Waste...
The shield is okay and the glacial waste effect is solid. Area effect damage over time with slow and it triggers fairly frequently, especially if you don't invest heavily in the shield itself. Lacks synergy though as it prevents you from crossing the 1hp threshold, which is too good a mechanic to pass up. The capstone skill is a little underwhelming as it just somewhat improves the shield. This is not a category that justifies a big investment but if you're a caster primarily, it's decent for a few points.
7. Animus...
Another good low to moderate investment category. Torture souls is a bread and butter skill, especially in combination with skeletons or Dire Plague. Hit as many enemies as you can to apply the Soul Leech status and then smack 'em with Torture Souls and recover the spent souls while obliterating the enemy. With Spikes of Decrepitude and Night sphere and Dire Plague, you can wipe out dozens of enemies all at once. I'm using it at 2/1/4/2.
It might be wise to invest more in the last skill as you really do need a higher soul cap.
Consume Soul is way more interesting and useful than its old incarnation. The best utility is to enter combat without a shield, get put into negative life, thus activating Across the Veil which will damage enemies, then toss up a damage shield and use Consume Soul to heal up and trigger Across the Veil again. In my experience, it's used primarily for offensive purposes.
8. Death...
Excellent in combination with Age of Dusk, Dreads, and Ghouls as you have plenty of ways to apply status effects and then demolish the afflicted enemies. Again, pricey in terms of souls.
Two points in Rigor Mortis is savage. I was wrong about burst damage because this skill can do huge amounts of damage.
Grim Shadow is a fantastic defensive skill with damage, pushback, defense and armor.
9. Age of Dusk...
Total immunity for two turns? Immunity bypassing disease? An instant teleport for repositioning? Yeah, arguably the best category. Expensive though in terms of soul cost.
Update: Dire Plague is a beast. Almost guaranteed status effect with good damage that you can stack with Rigor Mortis against bosses and use in combo with Torture Souls against mobs to recover souls quickly. Once you get cooldown reduction and your defense up, you just get close, unload and, well, not much lives past that. Plus, it helps recover souls if you stack it with Torture Souls, Call of the Mausoleum, Corpse Explosion, and Putrescent Liquefaction, and then the 1 hp threshold skills and other auto-damage, and things just die and your souls maxed out again. It's nice. The synergy between skills is better than I've seen almost anywhere else in the game. It's still in Beta but... it's solid.
Crepuscule is outstanding against a boss. It costs 2 souls but with a mere 2 points in it, it'll attack five times and have a chance to inflict a status effect which, again, with Rigor Mortis, is just deadly.
10. Rime Wraith...
Haven't used.
11. Eradication...
Bone Yard is okay but the duration is a little short. An added bonus would be nice but I've no thoughts as to what... To the Grave seems gimmicky but in combination with the Master of Flesh combo, it can really do some serious damage (also buggy right now... it worked and now it doesn't so...) Summon a Bone Yard, then apply To the Grave, cast Putrescent Liquefaction, Call of the Mausoleum, Corpse Explosion, and Torture Souls. If you get hit too badly in the middle, throw up a damage shield and Consume Soul to heal and do even more damage. Congrats... you've just cleared a huge mob and recovered full souls.
Impending Doom is really important because against single enemies, recovering souls is critical and you're going to need this skill or you'll have to invest heavily in Soul Leech. Pick your poison but this path, while it costs a category point, gets you to Eternal Night which lets you recover damage and dish out more.
12. Master Necromancer...
First skill is solid, third and fourth skills are excellent but the second, Surge of Undeath, is a little disappointing. My suggestion is to grant a little bonus to it such that it resets the ghoul duration counter and restores 25% of skeleton minion's life. This is a summoners category and if you're not going minion-only, you can skip it entirely.
Generics:
1. Necrosis
An excellent 5/4/4/5 category. The cooldown reduction on Across the Veil is fantastic and the damage is solid but the cooldown reduction makes it a monster skill, so much so that getting Vitality from an escort is a REALLY good idea. Blurred Mortality makes all of that possible, and it now scales off of Constitution which you can afford to invest in now as mana isn't a huge concern with this class.
Spikes of Decrepitude is free damage if you use runes only. This makes Cornac ideal for this class as you really want those five runes but the fact that it hits every turn, thus applying soul leech, makes Torture Souls into a killer. This is a great skill. This entire category is excellent.
2. Spectre
Seems like a 1/1/1/1 category but it's too bugged right now to be sure.
3. Lich (or whatever it's called)
The first skill is mostly a talent point sink but it's got a pretty cool function, namely that as long as you die against something powerful, and manage to kill it within "x" turns, you can never fully die. The second skill is just... excellent. Passive debuff akin to the Cursed Aura... very nice. The third skill are those damn shadows... just a nice addition. Finally... the fourth skill gives a you chance to buff up every time you cast a spell. Triggers more often than one might think.
None of the skills stand out as insanely good but the overall effect is outstanding. You definitely notice that you're stronger than you were. I encourage 5/5/5/5.
Overall, the mobility issue is unclear on the class because Spectre isn't working but this class is pretty murderous and fairly remarkably resilient. However, you should really, really, really try and pick up Vitality (or a lot of life regen on gear) from an escort and carry around a tool or equipment with healing because you've only got the one skill until late game life drain from Eternal Night. Bottom line... you don't heal well but not much lives long enough for it to matter. Your defense is unorthodox but wildly effective. Once you acquire some cooldown reduction... you'll be unstoppable (but not entirely because the play style encourages some risk so even though you're quite powerful, there will always be some risk with this class). I don't know how it plays on higher difficulty levels and the start can be tricky but thus far, I'm quite impressed.
1. Skeletons...
I like this category and they are quite resilient but Lord of Skulls does underwhelm. It requires max investment to gain the new skills and that's too big an investment for the payoff. The biggest issue with Lord of Skulls is that it doesn't work on the Bone Giant, which is quite disappointing. Because the skeleton level scales off the of talent level (and magic??) and not your character level, it's pretty all or nothing.
My suggestion is to make it work on a Bone Giant OR have the "Lord of Skulls" grant bonuses to your other skeletons or even both.
For the life of me, I can't find much utility in Bone Wall. In theory it's okay but in practice, it underwhelms.
The real loss here is the Bone Giant... there's just not really much call to use them in a minion build.
2. Master of Flesh...
I love this category. I'd suggest at least 4/4/3/0 (the last skill currently doesn't really work). The skills have synergy (if Putrescent Liquefaction is active, any ghouls that die, maybe including enemies but I can't tell yet, add to its duration) and immediate utility but they also scale well.
There is a slight problem in that it's not quite fine-tuned as the lifespan of the ghouls is quite short and they spawn on sight so you have to be right on top of the enemy for them to do any good in combat. That's fine for the freebie that spawns but when you use the active ability, they're summoned right on top of you and so they have little combat utility and really are just meat shields. This wouldn't be a problem except the duration of Putrescent Liquefaction is short enough that it can be tricky to make use of it (though it is quite a strong skill), given the cost.
My suggestion is to recover souls when using PL or to add a duration reset to Surge of Undeath in the Master Necro category. Maybe just cap Putrescent Liquefaction at 3 ghouls and 3 souls...
The synergy with Corpse Explosion is rather elegant... you get a free ghoul once combat starts so you can immediately dispense with it using PL and then immediately summon ghouls with CotM and then immediately use Corpse Explosion. You'll do good damage, apply status effects to enemies, and refresh the PL's duration.
Discarded Refuse doesn't really work... you can't turn it on until you have an active ghoul, which really only happens in combat and so you have to spent an entire turn to do it but by that point you might already have been afflicted with who knows what status effects and then it shuts off if you have no more ghouls. As a result, it's a 0 even though it's a cool skill in theory. It needs to be able to be sustained all the time and I don't really see any reason for it to be shut off at all. It needs some rethinking but the mechanic of it is solid as you can use ghouls for damage or defense and sometimes both.
The synergy with Bone Yard is solid but ultimately, this category is all about Putrescent Liquefaction and doing whatever it takes to keep that up and running.
3. Nightfall... a little underwhelming. The first skill in a cheap beam so it's a gimme. The second skill is costly but... almost a requirement. It's not the damage but the banes. If one lands and you add in a hex or a dire plague or a disease then Rigor Mortis becomes absolutely devastating. Sadly, I think it's a 1/1/0/0 category.
4. Dreads... this is a good category. It requires very little investment (3/1/1/1 seems about right) and starts unlocked. The dreads are as promised... annoying to the enemies. They're hard to kill and inflict status effects. Again, the minion scaling isn't ideal, in my opinion but the skills have excellent synergy as your Dread can heal with minion deaths (and with ghouls, you'll have plenty) and can be made invincible for a bit. My only issue is that when the Dreads turn invisible, you also can't see them... perhaps there could be an animation that lets you know where your Dread is...
What would be nice is if the 3rd skill in Nightfall also triggered with hexes or even any status effect... now that'd be worthwhile!
5. Grave...
This is a really solid damage category with some really useful mechanics with Corpselight. My only critique is the capstone skill improves Corpselight but not enough to tempt more than 1 point. What'd be nice is if it also increased the damage of the rest of the Grave skills. That'd be tempting!
6. Glacial Waste...
The shield is okay and the glacial waste effect is solid. Area effect damage over time with slow and it triggers fairly frequently, especially if you don't invest heavily in the shield itself. Lacks synergy though as it prevents you from crossing the 1hp threshold, which is too good a mechanic to pass up. The capstone skill is a little underwhelming as it just somewhat improves the shield. This is not a category that justifies a big investment but if you're a caster primarily, it's decent for a few points.
7. Animus...
Another good low to moderate investment category. Torture souls is a bread and butter skill, especially in combination with skeletons or Dire Plague. Hit as many enemies as you can to apply the Soul Leech status and then smack 'em with Torture Souls and recover the spent souls while obliterating the enemy. With Spikes of Decrepitude and Night sphere and Dire Plague, you can wipe out dozens of enemies all at once. I'm using it at 2/1/4/2.
It might be wise to invest more in the last skill as you really do need a higher soul cap.
Consume Soul is way more interesting and useful than its old incarnation. The best utility is to enter combat without a shield, get put into negative life, thus activating Across the Veil which will damage enemies, then toss up a damage shield and use Consume Soul to heal up and trigger Across the Veil again. In my experience, it's used primarily for offensive purposes.
8. Death...
Excellent in combination with Age of Dusk, Dreads, and Ghouls as you have plenty of ways to apply status effects and then demolish the afflicted enemies. Again, pricey in terms of souls.
Two points in Rigor Mortis is savage. I was wrong about burst damage because this skill can do huge amounts of damage.
Grim Shadow is a fantastic defensive skill with damage, pushback, defense and armor.
9. Age of Dusk...
Total immunity for two turns? Immunity bypassing disease? An instant teleport for repositioning? Yeah, arguably the best category. Expensive though in terms of soul cost.
Update: Dire Plague is a beast. Almost guaranteed status effect with good damage that you can stack with Rigor Mortis against bosses and use in combo with Torture Souls against mobs to recover souls quickly. Once you get cooldown reduction and your defense up, you just get close, unload and, well, not much lives past that. Plus, it helps recover souls if you stack it with Torture Souls, Call of the Mausoleum, Corpse Explosion, and Putrescent Liquefaction, and then the 1 hp threshold skills and other auto-damage, and things just die and your souls maxed out again. It's nice. The synergy between skills is better than I've seen almost anywhere else in the game. It's still in Beta but... it's solid.
Crepuscule is outstanding against a boss. It costs 2 souls but with a mere 2 points in it, it'll attack five times and have a chance to inflict a status effect which, again, with Rigor Mortis, is just deadly.
10. Rime Wraith...
Haven't used.
11. Eradication...
Bone Yard is okay but the duration is a little short. An added bonus would be nice but I've no thoughts as to what... To the Grave seems gimmicky but in combination with the Master of Flesh combo, it can really do some serious damage (also buggy right now... it worked and now it doesn't so...) Summon a Bone Yard, then apply To the Grave, cast Putrescent Liquefaction, Call of the Mausoleum, Corpse Explosion, and Torture Souls. If you get hit too badly in the middle, throw up a damage shield and Consume Soul to heal and do even more damage. Congrats... you've just cleared a huge mob and recovered full souls.
Impending Doom is really important because against single enemies, recovering souls is critical and you're going to need this skill or you'll have to invest heavily in Soul Leech. Pick your poison but this path, while it costs a category point, gets you to Eternal Night which lets you recover damage and dish out more.
12. Master Necromancer...
First skill is solid, third and fourth skills are excellent but the second, Surge of Undeath, is a little disappointing. My suggestion is to grant a little bonus to it such that it resets the ghoul duration counter and restores 25% of skeleton minion's life. This is a summoners category and if you're not going minion-only, you can skip it entirely.
Generics:
1. Necrosis
An excellent 5/4/4/5 category. The cooldown reduction on Across the Veil is fantastic and the damage is solid but the cooldown reduction makes it a monster skill, so much so that getting Vitality from an escort is a REALLY good idea. Blurred Mortality makes all of that possible, and it now scales off of Constitution which you can afford to invest in now as mana isn't a huge concern with this class.
Spikes of Decrepitude is free damage if you use runes only. This makes Cornac ideal for this class as you really want those five runes but the fact that it hits every turn, thus applying soul leech, makes Torture Souls into a killer. This is a great skill. This entire category is excellent.
2. Spectre
Seems like a 1/1/1/1 category but it's too bugged right now to be sure.
3. Lich (or whatever it's called)
The first skill is mostly a talent point sink but it's got a pretty cool function, namely that as long as you die against something powerful, and manage to kill it within "x" turns, you can never fully die. The second skill is just... excellent. Passive debuff akin to the Cursed Aura... very nice. The third skill are those damn shadows... just a nice addition. Finally... the fourth skill gives a you chance to buff up every time you cast a spell. Triggers more often than one might think.
None of the skills stand out as insanely good but the overall effect is outstanding. You definitely notice that you're stronger than you were. I encourage 5/5/5/5.
Overall, the mobility issue is unclear on the class because Spectre isn't working but this class is pretty murderous and fairly remarkably resilient. However, you should really, really, really try and pick up Vitality (or a lot of life regen on gear) from an escort and carry around a tool or equipment with healing because you've only got the one skill until late game life drain from Eternal Night. Bottom line... you don't heal well but not much lives long enough for it to matter. Your defense is unorthodox but wildly effective. Once you acquire some cooldown reduction... you'll be unstoppable (but not entirely because the play style encourages some risk so even though you're quite powerful, there will always be some risk with this class). I don't know how it plays on higher difficulty levels and the start can be tricky but thus far, I'm quite impressed.
Re: 1.7 Beta Necromancer review... In progress (spoilers?) -
Infinite Dungeon
Thanks for the beta. Necros seem to quite fun.
However you cannot win the pacifist quest in the Infinite Dungeon, since you cannot turn your Minions off before exiting the level. (You could consume them, but that is silly
)
In the next level your minions kill a NPC and you fail.
Best regards,
Arara
Thanks for the beta. Necros seem to quite fun.
However you cannot win the pacifist quest in the Infinite Dungeon, since you cannot turn your Minions off before exiting the level. (You could consume them, but that is silly
)In the next level your minions kill a NPC and you fail.
Best regards,
Arara
Re: 1.7 Beta Necromancer review... In progress (spoilers?)
Beta 3 review:
1. Overall, it has the best kind of problem, which is too many good skills and combinations but not enough talent points. There are a LOT of viable builds.
2. Skeletons... much improved with the changes to Lord of Skulls. The skeletons are pretty resilient but still largely disposable. My only issue is, yet again, Bone Wall. I just can't see any good reason to waste a turn or a precious skeleton on it. Skeletons have excellent mobility. As soon as you enter combat, they jump into the fray instead of staying clustered around you, though you have alternative means of getting into combat even if they didn't jump right in. Bone Giant is... fine, but considering how many alternative skills there are, it just hardly seems worth the investment but I have a suggestion:
IDEA#1: Allow Bone Giants to "level up" with every kill that it makes, the Bone Giant gains experience and can continually level up. More so, should it die, the next Bone Giant you summon retains "x" percentage of that experience and added levels.
2. Grave... this is a murderous category and pairs extremely well with skeletons or with a pure cold build. Corpselight is fantastic, in part because runes (which are instant) increase its stacks. Pairs well with Spectre teleport.
3. Glacial Waste... this category took a little time to understand but basically, it looks like 1/1/1/3-5 category. Basically, the damage reduction on the last skill is really what you want. More so, you want the glacial waste to trigger so buffing the shield isn't particularly useful until later in the game when enemies are doing lots of damage. Mostly, again, that last skill is just free damage reduction until the shield goes down.
4. Master Necromancer... This category is "boring" but surprisingly outstanding. It doesn't justify or require a huge investment but you'll use it a ton. The first skill grants you a necrotic aura again and a couple of points is all it takes. Surge of Undeath lets you heal your minions and grant them bonus speed. I used it a ton but mostly out of battle and didn't bother putting in more than one point. Recall Minions needs at minimum of two points but it is completely worth it. It is a GREAT defensive skill that displaces enemies with your own minions. The entire category is worth it for this skill alone but then you have the capstone "Suffer for Me." This simply displaces damage onto your minions... but because they suffer increased damage in the process, it chews them up pretty good and is arguably better with ghouls than skeletons but either way, it's fantastic.
5. Eradication... this can easily be a 4/3/3/4 category or a 1/1/5/5 or even a 5/1/1/5 and so on. It's really flexible and too useful to not pick up. Bone Yard pairs well with the spectre teleport as you can jump in, drag enemies in, teleport out and recall your minions to you if need be. It basically just hamstrings enemies right out of the gate.
6. Spectre... this is a good, cheap category. I used it at 3/1/1/1 for a long time and then dropped a couple more points in late game. It works beautifully. The 3 turn recall is a little tight and I'd prefer 4 or 5 but that's just me being greedy. It's a remarkably useful teleport both for offense and defense.
All in all, this class is rock-solid and one problem it doesn't have is mana. I barely put any points into Willpower (just to get the minimum for Lichform), preferring constitution, dexterity, or cunning. You have tons of options on stat distribution and that's really exciting because most classes are pretty straightforward but this one lets you be creative. Well done DarkGod. Back to mana though... even with sustains and spell-spamming, you really don't need a manasurge rune at all. There are three different skills that make it easier to recover mana and so there's no need for a huge mana pool. I honestly pretty much stopped even paying attention to mana consumption entirely and have yet to have it be a problem. Once you become a Lich, that +7 per turn is amazing.
This class uses small movements more than one might think. It also performs best "in the mix" but you have a ton of tools to play almost anyway you want.
1. Overall, it has the best kind of problem, which is too many good skills and combinations but not enough talent points. There are a LOT of viable builds.
2. Skeletons... much improved with the changes to Lord of Skulls. The skeletons are pretty resilient but still largely disposable. My only issue is, yet again, Bone Wall. I just can't see any good reason to waste a turn or a precious skeleton on it. Skeletons have excellent mobility. As soon as you enter combat, they jump into the fray instead of staying clustered around you, though you have alternative means of getting into combat even if they didn't jump right in. Bone Giant is... fine, but considering how many alternative skills there are, it just hardly seems worth the investment but I have a suggestion:
IDEA#1: Allow Bone Giants to "level up" with every kill that it makes, the Bone Giant gains experience and can continually level up. More so, should it die, the next Bone Giant you summon retains "x" percentage of that experience and added levels.
2. Grave... this is a murderous category and pairs extremely well with skeletons or with a pure cold build. Corpselight is fantastic, in part because runes (which are instant) increase its stacks. Pairs well with Spectre teleport.
3. Glacial Waste... this category took a little time to understand but basically, it looks like 1/1/1/3-5 category. Basically, the damage reduction on the last skill is really what you want. More so, you want the glacial waste to trigger so buffing the shield isn't particularly useful until later in the game when enemies are doing lots of damage. Mostly, again, that last skill is just free damage reduction until the shield goes down.
4. Master Necromancer... This category is "boring" but surprisingly outstanding. It doesn't justify or require a huge investment but you'll use it a ton. The first skill grants you a necrotic aura again and a couple of points is all it takes. Surge of Undeath lets you heal your minions and grant them bonus speed. I used it a ton but mostly out of battle and didn't bother putting in more than one point. Recall Minions needs at minimum of two points but it is completely worth it. It is a GREAT defensive skill that displaces enemies with your own minions. The entire category is worth it for this skill alone but then you have the capstone "Suffer for Me." This simply displaces damage onto your minions... but because they suffer increased damage in the process, it chews them up pretty good and is arguably better with ghouls than skeletons but either way, it's fantastic.
5. Eradication... this can easily be a 4/3/3/4 category or a 1/1/5/5 or even a 5/1/1/5 and so on. It's really flexible and too useful to not pick up. Bone Yard pairs well with the spectre teleport as you can jump in, drag enemies in, teleport out and recall your minions to you if need be. It basically just hamstrings enemies right out of the gate.
6. Spectre... this is a good, cheap category. I used it at 3/1/1/1 for a long time and then dropped a couple more points in late game. It works beautifully. The 3 turn recall is a little tight and I'd prefer 4 or 5 but that's just me being greedy. It's a remarkably useful teleport both for offense and defense.
All in all, this class is rock-solid and one problem it doesn't have is mana. I barely put any points into Willpower (just to get the minimum for Lichform), preferring constitution, dexterity, or cunning. You have tons of options on stat distribution and that's really exciting because most classes are pretty straightforward but this one lets you be creative. Well done DarkGod. Back to mana though... even with sustains and spell-spamming, you really don't need a manasurge rune at all. There are three different skills that make it easier to recover mana and so there's no need for a huge mana pool. I honestly pretty much stopped even paying attention to mana consumption entirely and have yet to have it be a problem. Once you become a Lich, that +7 per turn is amazing.
This class uses small movements more than one might think. It also performs best "in the mix" but you have a ton of tools to play almost anyway you want.
Last edited by Delmuir on Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PseudoLoneWolf
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Re: 1.7 Beta Necromancer review... In progress (spoilers?)
Figured I'd add my two cents because I quite like the new necro but haven't chimed in much on it.
I'd probably be more likely to use a skill that turned X (or even all) ghouls into flesh-bricks that act as walls, but even that is iffy. Would have a neat synergy with the ghoul summon skill though, letting you cast a way grosser version of Stone Wall.
I'd like to see Glacial Waste become a shield that either (a)sustains and automatically triggers when you go below 0HP, which would help nudge against casual abuse of Across The Veil (but not eliminate it, because abusing Across The Veil is lots of fun); or (b) adds a buffer directly onto the "top end" of your die_at. Effectively, you gain [shield strength] additional negative HP that is taken from, and consumed, before your actual HP. It regens as the shield does while sustained, up to a maximum value. By making it not a shield at all you would greatly encourage hopping back and forth over the threshold because the hits knocking you back under wouldn't be stopped by the shielding, only absorbed by Glacial Waste.
Even if neither of those choices are good, then just make it a regular triggerable shield with a cooldown. It being a sustain is counterproductive and makes it largely useless without active management, and said active management actively strips all the benefits of it being a sustain.
EDIT: I just poked into beta3 for the first time, and I see that Hiemal Shield lets some damage through when you have positive life. This is a step in the right direction! But I'm leaving my previous arguments intact because I think they are still valid.
Agreed. Bone Wall was a 1-pt and move on. I at least kept it on my hotbar in case I ever needed it, but the fact is that I never wanted to use it. Skeletons are disposable, but are juuuust valuable enough that I don't want to spend one on a wall. Additionally, most of the time when I got to the point that I wanted to use a wall, all my skeletons were probably dead already - if my minions were alive, I don't want to wall them in, I want to cast spells into combat (like Black Ice for instance) to support.2. Skeletons... much improved with the changes to Lord of Skulls. The skeletons are pretty resilient but still largely disposable. My only issue is, yet again, Bone Wall. I just can't see any good reason to waste a turn or a precious skeleton on it. Skeletons have excellent mobility. As soon as you enter combat, they jump into the fray instead of staying clustered around you, though you have alternative means of getting into combat even if they didn't jump right in.
I'd probably be more likely to use a skill that turned X (or even all) ghouls into flesh-bricks that act as walls, but even that is iffy. Would have a neat synergy with the ghoul summon skill though, letting you cast a way grosser version of Stone Wall.
Also agreed. Black Ice is a 5/5 main rotation skill. CotT is also a main rotation workhorse. I haven't even gotten into Corpselight yet cause I've been spreading points everywhere else.2. Grave... this is a murderous category and pairs extremely well with skeletons or with a pure cold build. Corpselight is fantastic, in part because runes (which are instant) increase its stacks. Pairs well with Spectre teleport.
The big problem with Glacial Waste imo is that it's a sustain shield on a class that wants to dip below 0HP and that has bonuses that you get if it's active below 0HP. But it's a sustain shield. So it sits on top of your fat health bar (that you've been steadily buffing with spare points in CON because why wouldn't you) and gives you more EHP on the wrong side of your bar.3. Glacial Waste... this category took a little time to understand but basically, it looks like 1/1/1/3-5 category. Basically, the damage reduction on the last skill is really what you want. More so, you want the glacial waste to trigger to buffing the shield isn't particularly useful until later in the game when enemies are doing lots of damage. Mostly, again, that last skill is just free damage reduction until the shield goes down.
I'd like to see Glacial Waste become a shield that either (a)sustains and automatically triggers when you go below 0HP, which would help nudge against casual abuse of Across The Veil (but not eliminate it, because abusing Across The Veil is lots of fun); or (b) adds a buffer directly onto the "top end" of your die_at. Effectively, you gain [shield strength] additional negative HP that is taken from, and consumed, before your actual HP. It regens as the shield does while sustained, up to a maximum value. By making it not a shield at all you would greatly encourage hopping back and forth over the threshold because the hits knocking you back under wouldn't be stopped by the shielding, only absorbed by Glacial Waste.
Even if neither of those choices are good, then just make it a regular triggerable shield with a cooldown. It being a sustain is counterproductive and makes it largely useless without active management, and said active management actively strips all the benefits of it being a sustain.
EDIT: I just poked into beta3 for the first time, and I see that Hiemal Shield lets some damage through when you have positive life. This is a step in the right direction! But I'm leaving my previous arguments intact because I think they are still valid.
Highly agreed. This is one of my very favorite classes to come out in a long while including several of the DLC classes and a lot of mods. I love not having to worry about mana because it frees up points for CON and/or CUN, both of which can benefit you greatly and would be otherwise unavailable. Necromancer is now one of few classes that can afford to make CON an honest to god secondary stat and not suffer for it at all, and it's great. I think that Glacial Waste in particular needs some tweaking, and the scaling on the Bone Giant could be looked at as it always felt exceptionally weaker than it should be. I was often getting Bone Giants with less max HP than myself, which doesn't really help me much when it's supposed to be tanking hits for the team - and 60% (I think it was 60? Might have been 40 but that seems low) all res was a pretty good buffer for that but in the end I usually had to summon a new Bone Giant at least once a floor if not after every significant combat with a rare+. But other than those two this is altogether an exceptionally crafted piece of work and I love it. It's tons of fun and it's powerful without being immortal.All in all, this class is rock-solid and one problem it doesn't have is mana. I barely put any points into Willpower (just to get the minimum for Lichform), preferring constitution, dexterity, or cunning. You have tons of options on stat distribution and that's really exciting because most classes are pretty straightforward but this one lets you be creative. Well done DarkGod. Back to mana though... even with sustains and spell-spamming, you really don't need a manasurge rune at all. There are three different skills that make it easier to recover mana and so there's no need for a huge mana pool. I honestly pretty much stopped even paying attention to mana consumption entirely and have yet to have it be a problem. Once you become a Lich, that +7 per turn is amazing.
This classes uses small movements more than one might think. It also performs best "in the mix" but you have a ton of tools to play almost anyway you want.
Let slip the toast of war.
Re: 1.7 Beta Necromancer review... In progress (spoilers?)
Okay, Prodigies!
1. You'll use up one prodigy with Lichform and it's wise to do so. It's almost universally worth it.
2. The best picks for a Necro are, depending on build, Cauterize, Adept, Blighted Summoning, and maybe Hidden Resources. Anything else is a massive waste.
Cauterize - the only real weakness of a Necro is a massive burst of damage and Cauterize solves that problem. It lacks glamour but on higher difficulty settings, it's probably your best bet.
Adept - this allows you to spread your talents far and wide as it grants +2 to ALL skills so if the break point is at level 3, you only need to add one point, and so on. This lets you take convenient categories like Master Necromancy without having to spread yourself too thin. There are enough good skills that this Prodigy can be comparable to having 20-40 or even more extra talent points. Well worth it.
Blighted Summoning - pretty much only if you're going pure summoner but the bonuses are rock-solid. This is also a good option if you're not going Lichform, which pretty much only pure summoners can justify doing.
Hidden Resources - This is immensely helpful in managing your resources and is, again, best if you don't go Lichform. It's probably better in general to just go with a Higher and skip this prodigy.
The result of only having one prodigy available makes Adept, in my opinion, probably the best through at least Nightmare.
And finally, category points/inscriptions...
Pick up at least one inscription slot and two if at all possible. Use the other two on categories and, if going Cornac, pick up a third (in this case, definitely go with Adept).
1. You'll use up one prodigy with Lichform and it's wise to do so. It's almost universally worth it.
2. The best picks for a Necro are, depending on build, Cauterize, Adept, Blighted Summoning, and maybe Hidden Resources. Anything else is a massive waste.
Cauterize - the only real weakness of a Necro is a massive burst of damage and Cauterize solves that problem. It lacks glamour but on higher difficulty settings, it's probably your best bet.
Adept - this allows you to spread your talents far and wide as it grants +2 to ALL skills so if the break point is at level 3, you only need to add one point, and so on. This lets you take convenient categories like Master Necromancy without having to spread yourself too thin. There are enough good skills that this Prodigy can be comparable to having 20-40 or even more extra talent points. Well worth it.
Blighted Summoning - pretty much only if you're going pure summoner but the bonuses are rock-solid. This is also a good option if you're not going Lichform, which pretty much only pure summoners can justify doing.
Hidden Resources - This is immensely helpful in managing your resources and is, again, best if you don't go Lichform. It's probably better in general to just go with a Higher and skip this prodigy.
The result of only having one prodigy available makes Adept, in my opinion, probably the best through at least Nightmare.
And finally, category points/inscriptions...
Pick up at least one inscription slot and two if at all possible. Use the other two on categories and, if going Cornac, pick up a third (in this case, definitely go with Adept).
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Re: 1.7 Beta Necromancer review... In progress (spoilers?)
Any thoughts on armor of shadows? I found it to be useful on my beta 1 winner, but i also found the heart that gives the similar bonus that run.Delmuir wrote: 2. The best picks for a Necro are, depending on build, Cauterize, Adept, Blighted Summoning, and maybe Hidden Resources. Anything else is a massive waste.
Re: 1.7 Beta Necromancer review... In progress (spoilers?)
Armor of Shadows?
I actually didn't take it seriously until you mentioned it but the 50% armor hardness combined with evasion and extra armor is quite potent with the right build, particularly if you make use of "Grim Shadow" and "Light Armor Training." You can end up with a considerable amount of armor. Given that you're in the mix with enemies, this is quite powerful.
I'm wondering if it'd be more powerful on higher difficulty levels. Definitely worth toying with.
Either way, that's a nice idea that I hadn't really considered. Good call.
I actually didn't take it seriously until you mentioned it but the 50% armor hardness combined with evasion and extra armor is quite potent with the right build, particularly if you make use of "Grim Shadow" and "Light Armor Training." You can end up with a considerable amount of armor. Given that you're in the mix with enemies, this is quite powerful.
I'm wondering if it'd be more powerful on higher difficulty levels. Definitely worth toying with.
Either way, that's a nice idea that I hadn't really considered. Good call.