Godfeaster can be an unfun trap. A simple tweak to fix that:

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Bananadine
Halfling
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:27 pm

Godfeaster can be an unfun trap. A simple tweak to fix that:

#1 Post by Bananadine »

The Godfeaster area is too dangerous on Insane, I am currently finding. It may be too dangerous for at least some characters regardless, depending on player skill. (That in itself is fine.) If I understand right you can't use the rod of recall to escape, except at the very beginning before you've fully entered. But at that point you don't yet know whether the enemies inside are too strong. If they are, then it's just a frustrating trap that punishes you extremely hard for being momentarily curious. There's nothing interesting or fun about strategizing around this by deciding (as I have now done) not to ever enter that dungeon again.

This area differs from the Melinda crypt in that allowing the rod to work inside it interferes with the concept of the "so this is how it feels to be an escort quest" quest. But that's only true AFTER you get trapped in the digestive sac or whatever and need that high-level lady to rescue and escort you. Before that, it wouldn't really hurt anything to let the rod work.

My tweak, then: Let the rod work normally until the player character gets trapped in the digestive sac. THEN disable it, saying something about how being in the sac has neutralized or corrupted the rod, or about how the rod has simply been lost. Upon exit from the completed dungeon, say something about how the rod's corruption has gone away with the worm's death, or about how the player character is able to properly wash it now that clean water is available, or that it's now feasible to hunt through the dead worm to find it again, or something else like that. Now the worm isn't a frustrating blind trap anymore!

Zeyphor
Archmage
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Re: Godfeaster can be an unfun trap. A simple tweak to fix t

#2 Post by Zeyphor »

a new player will see a colossal worm thats probably a several miles long called the GODfeaster
who, according to its name, eats GODS, and you're only in your low or mid 30s!

what kind of new player wouldn't expect to die after not using RoR?

HousePet
Perspiring Physicist
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Re: Godfeaster can be an unfun trap. A simple tweak to fix t

#3 Post by HousePet »

Zeyphor wrote:what kind of new player wouldn't expect to die after not using RoR?
Players expect to die.
They don't expect to get stuck in places where their only option is to repeatedly die until its new character time.
There are only a few places in the game that do this, and they seem arbitrary and without warning.
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.

Bananadine
Halfling
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: Godfeaster can be an unfun trap. A simple tweak to fix t

#4 Post by Bananadine »

Zeyphor wrote:a new player will see a colossal worm thats probably a several miles long called the GODfeaster
who, according to its name, eats GODS, and you're only in your low or mid 30s!

what kind of new player wouldn't expect to die after not using RoR?
I don't know. I'm not especially concerned about how new players experience this event because I expect them to die for stupid reasons regardless of whether the game traps them into it or not. The trap will tend to get lost in the noise of their mistakes.

I've done many runs and I've won on insane roguelike, yet I still get trapped by the Godfeaster, because even an experienced player can't learn everything about a dungeon after just three or four runs through it with only three or four of the billion distinct characters you can make in this game. And if you only get one chance to learn about this monster per several hours of play, then you're probably not going to know very much about it, ever. (On top of that, every time a new version of the game comes out there's a chance that what you've already learned is now invalid!)

When I reach this event, I always feel tempted to try it out. If my character feels a little bit stronger than the last one who died there, then I kinda HAVE to try it out if I'm ever going to learn exactly how dangerous the area is. So okay, I go in and I learn... and then, having learned that it's too dangerous, I want to salvage my run by leaving. Why shouldn't I be able to? Because I dared desire to learn a little more about a good game that I like, and thus deserve punishment? Nah that's not how it works.

Bananadine
Halfling
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: Godfeaster can be an unfun trap. A simple tweak to fix t

#5 Post by Bananadine »

Hmm another thing just occurred to me: Maybe the point of the area is to force the player to try to sneak past (or just flee in a panic from) overpowered enemies and then stumble into rescue in the form of the high-leveled warrior. That does seem to fit the quest concept well. In that case, I'd suggest a different (and surely also easily implemented) tweak:

Keep the rod inoperable throughout the whole area, but also make it more feasible for the player to actually be dramatically rescued, by causing all pursuing enemies to be returned to their starting positions and cleared of their knowledge of you as soon as you fall into the trap.

It kinda makes sense; they'd think you weren't a threat anymore once you were actively being digested. (Uh and this isn't how it currently works, is it? I'm hardly an expert on this map; that's part of the problem.) Last time I got "rescued", there were so many enemies pursuing that even my rescuer couldn't actually save me. And this would actually make the area a unique sort of challenge for an experienced player, one in which you need to flee and sneak in search of aid.

I think either of these solutions could work well (assuming they both make sense).

GlassGo
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Re: Godfeaster can be an unfun trap. A simple tweak to fix t

#6 Post by GlassGo »

I don't remmeber when my char died in Godfeaster last time. Its easy now - boss was nerfed to salad, and the only trouble here is to keep Maluyka alive - for this I just escort her to the beginning of level, and then using all movement options to outpace her and eliminate boss before she arrive.
Godfeaster is a valuable source of t5 gear, and voratun if character has Tinkers.
Of course, you won't know what to do if you not doing it - practice makes perfect.
I always do Dark Crypt and Godfeaster - and that's easy-peasy, also they are much easier now than years ago, so I see no reason to skip these parts.
Also, not being able to recall out of Godfeaster is about taking the risk - you should decide, and then fight to the end.
English isn't my native language.

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