a large antimagic race

[Brcz]

I noticed a significant hole in the existing "standard" races is a large bruiser who doesn't like magic. It seems like "big, dumb brute" is one of the most obvious archetypes and yet there isn't one available. This would be a natural fit for a large race that just pummels things, whether it be a big dumb hill giant or maybe even a brutal and cunning bugbear. I'm thinking it would go in the Giant category.

hill giant
+4 str, +3 con, -2 mag, -2 cun, +1 size
t1: Activated: For the next 5 turns, you cannot be stunned or dazed. cd is standard for t1's. Every point is also +2 str.
t2: Passive: Gain +(5*skill level)% physical damage bonus.
t3: Activated: Simple-minded aggression. Convert all existing mental and magical saves into physical power, and sets all mental resists to a maximum of (25-talent level*25)%. Lasts 1 turn and has a cd of 1 turns. Instant cast.
t4: Passive: Ignore (10*skill level)% of target's stun, daze, and knockback immunities. At talent level 5, this also applies to confusion immunities.

bugbear
+2 cun, +1 str, +1 con, -2 mag, -2 wil, large size
t1: Activated. Increases APR and resist penetration for 5 turns. Typical CD.
t2: Passive. Grinning cruelty. Crit multiplier increases by (10*talent level)% for physical crits, and gain hp every time a physical crit is successfully performed.
t3: Passive. You can smell the fear of any enemy you have damaged with a physical attack within the last (2*talent level) turns. Add a status effect that enables you to see the enemy even if you do not have line of sight, are blinded, they are outside of your light or infravision radius, etc. At talent level 5, you gain blind-fighting against any enemies affected by this status.
t4: Activated: Trigger the trap. You have feigned a disability in order to manipulate your target, and now you have him exactly where you want him. Pass (skill level) mental or physical status effects you are afflicted by to the target of your choice within melee range.

[Sheila]

Not sure how these races are antimagic at all, but otherwise I like the idea.

[Micbran]

Although I'm sure the DLC's will add plenty of interesting races, it would be nice to see some more giants. And these actually don't look too bad either.

[Davion Fuxa]

Is the purpose of these new races to be unable to use Magic, or just be 'geared' towards choosing Anti-magic?

If the purpose is for them being geared towards it, but still being able to use Magic, then technically these racials are fine. We could have Hill Giant Geomancers that uses earth spells against enemies; getting the physical bonus or the stun, daze, and knockback penetration. The Bugbear could work well for any physical mages - of which there are many.

I'd note that stats could probably be improved though. Generally the races have an average of +5 in stats, your Hill Giant has +3 while your Bugbear has +0 additional stats. I'd possibly tweak the talents as they appear for the Hill Giant, that T1 looks pretty powerful for a first tier racial, T2 looks quite power as well, and the T4 looks a bit lacklustre. Maybe swap the T1 and T4 racials and the T2 and T3 racials, improve the T1 to do a bit more then mimic Movement Infusions without the speed boost - maybe bump up all your stats instead of just strength and give you Physical Resist Pen or something.

[bpat]

I'm not a fan of shoehorning a race into a specific type of build. Both these races have talents that seem more like class talents than racial talents. Racials like Wrath of the Woods and Luck of the Little Folk work because they're good for all characters and while existing races have some synergy with classes, they can work with almost any class because of their versatility.

[Davion Fuxa]

I'm not a fan of shoehorning a race into a specific type of build. Both these races have talents that seem more like class talents than racial talents. Racials like Wrath of the Woods and Luck of the Little Folk work because they're good for all characters and while existing races have some synergy with classes, they can work with almost any class because of their versatility.

If this is a problem then an easy way around it is to give benefits to those specific talents that cater to specific playstyles. The Ogre has a good example of this with Grisly Constitution.

[Brcz]

In response to multiple people above, my bad, you're right. I should have said they were races that had no racial spells, not that they were antimagic.

[Sheila]

In response to multiple people above, my bad, you're right. I should have said they were races that had no racial spells, not that they were antimagic.

If that's the case, there's plenty of races without spells for their racials already, so it'd be nothing new.

[Brcz]

The reason I was thinking about this was that I wanted a large race for brawler, grappling specifically, that specialized in non-spell abilities so I could go antimagic.

It occurred to me that this doesn't currently exist.

It seems like "large, strong, stupid bruiser" is one of the most basic archetypes we might imagine, yet there is not currently something that fits the bill.

[Davion Fuxa]

Something to note about ToME is that it doesn't necessarily adhere to rigid stereotypes. Dwarves may still live deep in the mountains, and Humans may still create various kingdoms that dot the landscape, but everything generally has its own mythos attached to it. Halflings were warmongers for example, Highers and Ogres were a science experiment, and then there is the Dominion of Trolls we have yet to get full into in the game.

This doesn't mean we may not necessarily get a 'big, dumb, bruiser' type; Ogre's got in for example. However, I'll note that Ogres were developed to be a lot different from other races - We didn't have a Strength/Magic or Strength/Cunning race when they got in, so Ogres were crafted to have those stats. They managed to get several Inscription related Racials that I had suggested as well, which hadn't really been touched on yet.

[Davion Fuxa]

I figured I'd go in depth with some ideas on what I would do to change around these races, if I were making them. First, eventually we will have a Troll campaign - Bugbear might go well as a selectable race when they come in. It could perhaps be a Maj'Eyal race, but I'll just throw it out there that it could make for a good race to pair up with Trolls.

Anyhow, it seems like you want this race to be a sort of 'up close and personal' race? I think that alone could work well in defining how they work, so here is some adjustment to that idea.

• Bugbear
  +2 str, +2 dex, +2 con, -2 mag, -2 wil, +2 cun, +1 size, +0 Life Rating
  
  T1 - Visage of the Destroyer
  Active Talent with 46-30 Cooldown (scaling with Talent Level)
  Instant Use
  
  You grin cruelly and you are ready to destroy your enemy. You are ready to jump into combat, and you gain bonuses the closer you are to your enemy. Gain 10%*Talent Level Critical Multiplier - 5% Critical Multiplier per Tile between you and your opponents. You need to be able to see an enemy to activate this talent, and you will always gain 1%-%5 Critical Multiplier scaling with your Cunning stat when using this talent.
  
  Note - So this is based on your second talent idea. It now works with all your criticals, but to get the most of the talent you need to be right up on your foes. It doesn't heal you when you hit stuff though - it is only a T1 Racial after all.
  
  T2 - Heightened Sense of Smell
  Passive
  
  You can smell enemies around you, allowing you to know where they are - even when Blinded. Gain +5 Stealth and Invisible Detection and 3+Talent Level Telepathy on everything around you. At Talent Level 3 you gain Blind-fighting.
  
  Note - You essentially become Blind immune with this talent; well technically you can still be blinded but you'll still know where everything is and at level 3 you'll suffer no penalties for hitting enemies while blind. Talent probably needs to do a bit more then what I have here; maybe when enemies Bleed you might get some bonus? Would have to make some talent cause Bleed though.
  
  T3 - Rend Your Enemy
  Passive Talent
  
  Your attacks rend through your opponents defenses, making subsequent attacks more likely to get through. Gain 0.5% additional APR and All Resistant Penetration every time you attack, stacking up to 2 * Talent Level times. The buff will last 1+1*Talent Level turns, and the timer will be reapplied everytime you attack an enemy.
  
  Note - Changed to be a stacking buff, you get your penetration passively as you go along.
  
  T4 - Painful Payback
  Active talent with 47-35 Cooldown (scaling with Talent Level)
  Range 10 Tiles
  1 Turn Use
  
  As enemies inflict injuries upon you, you inflict it back. Charge up to an enemy and grab them, passing Talent Level random detrimental effects afflicting you to them. For each detrimental effect you pass to the enemy you gain 5% * detrimental effects passed Health Steal for 10 turns.
  
  Note - Here is your Life Steal, on the capstone talent. I changed the talent to be a sort of rush talent too; still need to get close though.

May have some thoughts on the Giants, but I'll write something about them at another time.

[Micbran]

Bugbear
+2 str, +2 dex, +2 con, -2 mag, -2 wil, +2 cun, +1 size, +0 Life Rating

Wow I can't wait to lose health on level up when I play archmage.

[Davion Fuxa]

+0 Life Rating is the same as Cornacs; and techincally the only races that 'don't' lose hit points as you state it with Archmage are Ghouls and Whitehooves.

[Davion Fuxa]

So, the idea for a Giant Race. Not exactly sure if they should be called 'Giant' per se, but whatever, I'll leave that for now. So, first, some notable problems.

Stat wise, this race seems really similar to too many other races. Dwarves, Thalore, Kruk Yeti, and Ghouls all have similar Stat profiles to what you suggested. Orcs and Skeletons are close enough to deserve a mention too. And if Bugbear were to come in, they would also be pretty similar. Bugbear had the advantage that outside of Halflings and Ghouls, no other race is really weak in both Magic and Willpower. The Bugbears positive stats are really close to other races but with the amount of Races ToME that is to be expected; however, it is distinct enough.

The other notable problem is how centered on just 'brawling' the talents are. It is pretty well so focused on it that. With the Bugbear I think I more or less suggested ideas that could still be useful on Brawlers - but also useful on other classes too. I'm not exactly sure how I could easily do that here with all of them, so I just went with the best match to the general ideas.

Some ideas on changing things up here though, First, the Talents -

• Giant
  +0 str, +2 dex, +3 con, -3 mag, +4 wil, -2 cun, +1 size, +0 Life Rating
  
  Note - I sort of thought up the Talents first here, and notable, they seemed very 'Willpower' based when I put them to paper. Willpower is a good stat for anyone planning on going Anti-magic. They still have crappy Cunning; which is usually the accompanying stat for Willpower in a lot of classes, but that helps to set them apart from other races by a lot. Magic is completely in the toilet, and with a -3 Stat in Magic, this would be definitely the worst race in the game for it.
  
  I fiddled quite a bit with Strength, but to try and make this race as distinct as possible, I think it would be best to leave it at zero. However, you want a sort of 'Brawler' type, and Dexterity is used quite a bit in Brawling so I raised that stat up a bit. Constitution was left as is.
  
  Notably, I didn't include your 2nd Tier Racial idea below (too similar to Thalore or Orcs I think) - having a Dexterity based talent might be a good fit for that spot (we have enough Constitution based ones already in game). Since this would be a 'big' race with a lot of bulk to it, I went with a sort of 'brute force rush'. That can be useful for both escaping or getting close to enemies.
  
  T1 - Step On Over
  Active Talent with cooldown of 36–20
  Range of 6-10
  Takes a Turn to Use
  
  You move from point A to point B. It doesn't really matter if anything is in the way, you step on over them. Enemies you step on have a 20%*Talent Level chance of getting Pinned.
  
  This talent does not let you move through obstacles and the end point needs to be empty.
  
  Note - This is essentially Giant Leap where you target a square and end up there. Only difference is that you 'walk' over to your destination instead of leaping over it, and you don't damage stuff along the way.
  
  T2 - Will It Through
  Passive
  
  No matter how much the enemy resists you, you will your attacks through their defenses. Increases All Status Resist Penetration by 1-25% based on Willpower and Talent Level.
  
  Note - I took your suggested capstone talent idea and upgraded it to penetrate all Status Resistances. This could be a fixed value not based in Willpower if desired - may be a good idea to do it that way.
  
  T3 - Single Minded Aggression
  Sustained Talent with 10 Turn Cooldown
  Takes 1 Turn To use
  
  You focus everything into destroying your enemies! Reduce all your Saves by 50%. Increase your Attack Power by Talent Level*20% of the added value of all your Saves.
  
  Note - Instead of making it an Active, make it a Sustain! Similarly to a Berserker type of style, you channel your defenses into your Attack - so to speak.
  
  T4 - Fight Through It
  Active talent with 47-35 Cooldown (scaling with Talent Level)
  Instant Use
  
  For the next 2-6 turns scaling with Talent Level you ignore the pain of afflictions wrought on you by your enemies. Detrimental effects will still cooldown and be applied to you, but you will not be affected by them. In addition to this you gain +2*Talent Level in all your stats.
  
  Note - This is based off your first talent idea, but powered up to the point that it could only serve as a Capstone. It essentially makes you immune to all detrimental effects for a small period while boosting all your stats.

[Lubaf]

One of the important things about Ogres I realized fairly early in is that they filled a pair of useful Lore niches: Their origins would feed into either the "experiment" era of the world, or the Spellblaze, (I leaned towards the latter, but DG & Company chose the former) and it would give the Shalore some "nice guy points" that they badly needed. You need to find at least one such lore niche to succeed at this.

What does your race's existence and history say about the world of Eyal? Ogres say "the war between the Conclave and the Halfling Empire was actually worse then you think", among other things.

Thanks
Luc "Lore Logic" French