[1.5] Most striking nerfs, balanced or overdone?

[ster]

Writ Large nerf is good, Ogre was a straight upgrade from Cornac with the free Inscription.

yeah but now ogre is worse than both elves and cornac's 1 good build?


e: and still way better than the bad races, lol balance

e:e: noticed this thread didn't mention the dwarf/higher/ghoul/skeleton buffs, probably because they did effectively nothing except make stone warden a bit better

[dadito]

For undead races to be decent they'd have to be the best races in the game if you thought about them in the context of infusions not existing, as it is right now they're still not that great even if you think about them like that

[bpat]

For undead races to be decent they'd have to be the best races in the game if you thought about them in the context of infusions not existing, as it is right now they're still not that great even if you think about them like that

Not quite. It would take a lot less for Undead to be good on classes that naturally use Tinkers and Runes than on other classes, so a middle ground could exist. For instance, if Undead didn't suck they would make decent Corruptors since Corruptors could realistically use a setup like Injector x2, Shielding x2, Lightning/PD/Controlled PD. I'm not sure what kind of buffs would need to happen to make this worth it without making Undead better than the Elves but it is possible.

[Davion Fuxa]

I can note that I've played a good deal with the Whitehooves in the EoR campaign, and though Undead they aren't necessarily clearly better then either the Kruk Yeti or the Orcs. Playing with the Sawbutcher or the Corrupter, I've made it to the Slumbering Caves (and won with the Whitehoof Corrupter too) and not really having any major problems, compared to the Orc Psyshot whom had the added benefit of using Infusions. However, Whitehooves aren't Skeletons or Ghouls, and the latter could certainly use some improvement to make them more decent.

Really, I think the question that needs to be asked is if the Skeletons and Ghouls were in the Whitehooves shoes in the EoR campaign, how much weaker might they be and why would they weaker?

[ster]

all the EoR races are really bad though


infusions tend to be less critical on normal because you don't need movement infusion to avoid being stunned for 15 turns every time you approach a melee, or heroism infusion to not die

[HousePet]

So ster, 100% stun immunity isn't useful (from Lichform), but you need a movement infusion to avoid being stunned?

[Coldbringer]

all the EoR races are really bad though

What do you base that on? I think the racial abilities for all three are quite useful. Maybe not quite as good as Shalore or Ogre, but still very powerful and better than those of the other races overall.

[ster]

most striking nerf: the GWF one. enemies didn't become extra threatening with it on but it was part of every player's toolkit and is especially hard on marauder ( a good well designed class) and bulwark (the worst class)????

What do you base that on? I think the racial abilities for all three are quite useful. Maybe not quite as good as Shalore or Ogre, but still very powerful and better than those of the other races overall.

thalore is my par for a generally good race, here is how the EoR races compare to thalore:
orc; racials are like 1/1/1/2 because they barely do anything with the exception of pride of the orcs. pride of the orcs itself isnt super special but it's very nice to have. thalore has a better damage boost (WIL is a stat you might actually invest in unlike con), all resist, and the trees which provide unique utility to everyone.
yeti; the best eor race because freeze is ridiculously op and phys resist is a decent 1 pointer. if the other racials didn't scale off con they would also be really good. about equal to thalore.
whitehooves; they're undead lol so they suck. also require a completely absurd investment in racials for what amounts to just a +36% damage boost. that's 2 wraths of the woods for 11 generics. and not even the good part of wrath of the woods.

[Micbran]

Imo the GWF nerf hurt players far more than it hurts NPCs and GWF for sure was not at the top of my "oh shit a rare rolled that" list (actually rather close to the bottom-middleish). I think I laughed when the Half-Finished Bone Giant rolled GWF at TL 5 and then proceeded to steamroll him.

I think marauder probably needs a little work in the class talent section anyways, as summarized by random_pal's statement: Marauder in 1.4.9 feels like a well-crafted adventurer build, quite a few talents have noticeable synergy. The underlying problem with this feeling is essentially that marauder doesn't have that many unique talents/trees, aside from... Riot is it? Other than that, I don't think it has any talent trees that are solely its own which is fine, but... at this rate (1.5b) it might as well be a rogue where stealth is supplanted by "the unstopabble tree."

[ster]

Marauder basically had unique access to Battle Tactics, Bloodthirst and Momentum due to how bad the other classes with it were. Now momentum and battle tactics' DPS boosts have been nerfed to the ground the synergy between those 3 trees have gone. 1.5 marauder won't even be getting OParry to make up for it!

[bpat]

How bad was GWF nerfed? I didn't check the numbers myself but it definitely doesn't warrant a nerf of any kind since Marauder isn't overpowered and Bulwark will be collateral damage. GWF isn't even close to the most dangerous thing a melee enemy can do since it takes a turn so you have time to prepare yourself.

[dadito]

1 extra hit max per weapon per turn

It is instant now to compensate

[ster]

Yeah it's 2 extra hits compared to 10+ which is huge

[jenx]

1 extra hit max per weapon per turn

It is instant now to compensate

instant? then that makes a massive difference

I goota try that out, with adventurer and TK

[ster]

Old GWF was instant because you never had any reason to apply it in the middle of a fight, or you were proccing it off dakhtun's.


also jenx be prepared to be disappointed lol, 1 category point for 3 extra hits sounds awful