Embers of Rage Rares Occurence

[Micbran]

I'm curious. Is it just me or do other people feel like the EoR classes are more heavily weighted on rares?

[ster]

well i die to them more, that's something

[Frumple]

Will say the last time I messed with multiclass (i.e. all randbosses,* all the time), tinker classes did seem oddly common. Lemme see if find in file can track down whatever part of the code is generating rares...

... and, as near as I can tell -- and take it with a bucket or two of salt, because I can barely even somewhat understand what's going on with this stuff and code referencing it is spread over at least a half-dozen files, including base engine material -- there isn't some kind of weighting or anything.

That said, eyeballing this junk suggests that what could be happening is that steam power is passing the conflicting power source check... thing... involved in class selection somewhat abnormally often. Would make sense, considering steam's probably the most permissive power source in the game besides unknown, at the mo'. That'd probably be enough to explain the difference if it's actually there and not just the brain doing the things it likes to do when confronted with statistical probability/RNG.

*And apparently the code for generating a rare and a randboss is more or less the same, as far as I can parse it. Mostly (if not entirely) just larger numbers.

[Number43]

I think they just stand out more in your memory as they are more likely to give you trouble. You fight just as many of them as other classes, but you don't remember a lot of them as they were so easy you didn't have to think about the battle. Also remember that rares can have talents from multiple classes so the embers classes appear more often than their percentage of all classes, and when they do you are more likely to pay attention to their embers class talents than the ones they get from wyrmic or berserker or whatever.

[bpat]

I agree with Number23. I remember more Necromancer rares than Psyshot rares because they give me more trouble.

[Frumple]

It's definitely pretty likely. Still, that last multiclass romp mentioned was part tech paladin, and I probably inspected at least a few hundred randbosses by the time I got distracted by something else, checking to see if they had something I felt like stealing. Steam talents -- particularly sawbutcher ones, for some reason -- did actually seem to be somewhat abnormally common. Couple other classes seemed a little skewed, too... arcane blades, 'zerkers, and one of the rogue classes or another (lethality seems to show up a lot -- part of that's due to p/rogue enemies, but even beyond that it seemed easy to run into) probably being the ones I substantially noticed. Afflicted were also something you practically tripped over in comparison to some other categories.

... though now I'm wondering if it's more just that some of the arcane classes and oozemancers show up a bit less than the others. Again, going by the code (assuming I wasn't massively misunderstanding what it's doing, which to be fair is a definite assumption), it would make sense if classes that weren't already locked into arcane or antimagic had some degree of advantage in terms of appearance frequency.

[Number43]

I remember my one nightmare win, I encountered a stair guardian that was so defense and had high hp and vitality that I couldn't outdamage its heals. It's was part sawbutcher and those talents contributed to its defenses some, but it was nothing to worry about defensively as it had a one handed weapon and shield equipped instead of steamsaws.

So sometimes those tinker rares would be really dangerous if not for them having equipment for a different class they have talents of. But when they actually have the right gear, sawbutcher rares are exceptionally deadly.

But what's most memorable is the sheer ridiculousness of midge swarms or snakes with guns.

I agree with Number23. I remember more Necromancer rares than Psyshot rares because they give me more trouble.

That's 43, so chosen as I'm slightly greater than the meaning of the universe.

[ster]

So sometimes those tinker rares would be really dangerous if not for them having equipment for a different class they have talents of. But when they actually have the right gear, sawbutcher rares are exceptionally deadly.

Well that's the case for pretty much every unique/randboss except casters, not just tinkers. Like if you get a primarily solipsist, secondary melee class randboss it will try and melee you with non psiblade mindstars because that's what solipsists spawn with. And currently sun paladin and brawler unique and randbosses will never use the large majority of their skills since they literally can't spawn with the proper gear.

Oh, and the RNG can hate you even more and throw a sawbutcher randboss using assault or arcane combat or flurry or reaving combat and yeah you get the idea with dual steamsaws and its just as bad as it sounds

[Effigy]

There is a "random_rarity" field in class definitions which, from looking at the code, appears to be used for determining how often a class is used for rare+ NPCs. I didn't take the time to compare how this field is set for different classes, but it is possible for some to be more common than others.

[Frumple]

Oh hey, I missed that entirely. Which is kinda' odd in retrospect, because now that you mention it I actually remember seeing that field before, ha. Time to see what professor find in files says on the subject...

... lil' bit. Doomed and chronomancers (PM or TW) are at two, solipsists and oozemancers at 3. Nothing else has it, DLC classes or otherwise. The actual code calling that particular value might as well be complete gibberish to me, though, and it half looks like that value isn't even being used to really determine much. So I got no real clue what the actual effect is. It's findable around line 2051 of mod/class/GameState.lua, though, if anyone wants to look at it. Base T4 stuff, mind. Neither of the DLCs touch that lua file, so there's probably not anything in them directly fiddling with the random critter creation code.

Still, if it means what it looks like on the face of it, you'd see cursed more than doomed, wyrmics and summoners more than oozemancers, slayers more than solipsists, and PMs and TWs about as often as each other, with everything else coming in ahead of the five in question. Still may be that power source thing having an influence, too. Nonexistent programming gods only know what the magnitude of the effect is, though. Couldn't parse the numbery parts of the code to save my life.

[ster]

Doomed rares being the least common doesn't mesh well with my memory but they're also the most dangerous by far and extremely easy to recognize due to shadows so it's probably placebo