Thoughts on AoA versus EoR?

[Davion Fuxa]

So at this point, The Tales of Maj'Eyal - Embers of Rage DLC has been out for several months. I'm wondering what other peoples thoughts are on 'Maj'Eyal: Age of Ascendancy' versus 'Orcs: Embers of Rage' campaigns? There has been some random thoughts made here and there by people, but I don't think anyone has yet to do a thread directed at comparing the two campaigns yet.

Personally I think the Orc Campaign did a lot of cool things compared to the Main 'Vanilla' Campaign. A shorter 'time to completion', fairly good variance of different enemy combatants, defined zone progression. That said though, there are perhaps a few things that can be liked more about the Original Campaign over the new DLC one. 'Distinguishable noticeable power creep - not just in classes and tinkers; but also general difficulty, very little 'outside world exploration' or 'general Var'Eyal lore', as it just focused on the Orc Campaign, and not a whole lot of room to personally level ones character to get stronger.

It is probably important to discuss this if darkgod is planning on additional campaigns (something about Undead, something else about Nagas) since there can always be room for improvement.

[grobblewobble]

I loved the dark storyline, even though it gave me the shivers too -- having to murder the paladins was horrible in a good way.

The part I liked the least was the bit where the Eidolon himself pits you against the Scourge of the West for giggles.. that just left me staring in disbelief and muttering "okaaay let's pretend this wasn't in the game"

Maybe a few more optional side quests would have been cool, but I don't want to whine when such a creative work of art has been given away for free..

Mechanically, I admire the original new ideas, highly creative. Though yes, classes, races and PES are a little on the OP side.
The injector system is lovely imho, thematically appropriate and well done.

[Coldbringer]

To me EoR was a huge step forward in so many ways. Very well designed skills, racial abilities, and system for acquiring other abilities since there are no escorts. The tinkering to make new items is awesome as are injections and steam resource. All the new enemies to fight are cool. New items are great. enjoyed the story and lore. Really liked the treasure zones such as the pirate area, Kraltors shop, and all the new Vaults.

I have two gripes. 1 - the Sun Paladin and Anorithil patrols are a bit too OP, even worse than the Zigur/Adventuring party or even orc party patrols. Had a decked out level 50 character get one shotted from full HPs by a single spell. Yeah you can avoid them but if you want to get enough T5 materials for end game tinkers you kind of need to farm them.

2 - the final battle was a bit disappointing. I found it way too easy even on Nightmare, I was never really in danger of dying. It was just tedious. Sawbutcher is OP as -, but still. Was hoping Mr A would be re-assembled and I'd get to fight him and become a god slayer. I killed a squid, whoop de damn doo. The two final bosses in the MajEyal campaign are vastly stronger! After getting squashed by them I was expecting a battle royale for the EoR finale. The showdown with the corrupted council was harder IMHO.

Main campaign seems to have a lot more zones and things to do, but EoR was a much needed breath of fresh air with many improvements and innovations.

[Davion Fuxa]

I kind of have to question your reasoning since you mentioned 'Steam Giant Council' being stronger. You have the ability to stair dance for them, though really if you want you can just plaster them with ranged type characters. You also have a different enemy faction for the final one, which means you can just stay out of the fray while the final Steam Giant battles the Horror and just weaken them both.

You don't get such luxuries with the the Final Boss since you are forced to battle him in a very tight area until he (or you) goes down. Unlike with the original campaign as well you can't exactly 'turn off' the ads in the fight. Most likely it may be more of an issue with Sawbutcher Power Creep then the EoR Final Boss being weak.

[bpat]

EoR is much, much easier than AoA. The only particularly challenging zones are Ritch Tunnels, Sunwall, and Slumbering Caves (which is still easier than High Peak) and also all classes get Tinkers without losing a category point. I really enjoyed playing EoR but I'm sticking to AoA for now. On the other hand, for people who like shorter campaigns, EoR is amazing.

[Coldbringer]

Spoiler,

Last boss just has one dangerous nuke you have to be ready for. The rest is trying to gradually wear you down over a long fight, dancing around. If you have enough healing and damage mitigation, manage your cooldowns well, you outlast him and win. Very different approach from the two bosses on the main campaign that have a huge offensive arsenal and tons of debuffs and blitz you with an unending wave of spells and skills and every turn is a desperate fight for survival.

[Velorien]

[EoR story spoilers]

Personally, while I've enjoyed EoR (haven't beaten the final boss yet - got one-shotted by an Inner Demon when I made it to the final dungeon), I hate how it undoes so much of the work you did in AoA. You go to so much effort to defeat the orcs, save the sun paladin civilisation and put an end to the interminable cycle of war and vengeance... and then some random orc hero turns up, massacres the people you saved, kills Aeryn after all the effort you went to to protect her, and frees another generation of orcs with a now even bigger grudge against the rest of the world. The destruction of the farportal does help... for however long it takes until someone finds a way to link the continents again.

Not saying that the sun paladins' orc internment camps were the greatest ethical achievement of the century, but I thought it was pretty good going given they needed to find a solution to centuries of hatred and had only been at it for a couple of years. In a world as dark as Maj'Eyal's, complete genocide would not have been unexpected. After all, they already thought they'd done it once.

Anyway, I had fun with the varied new enemies and mechanics, but I didn't like the slowly dawning realisation that, in relation to AoA, I was playing the "evil" campaign without meaning to. Watching two sides who could perfectly well find a way to coexist in peace if they made an actual effort (Kruk *was* the pacifist pride) trying to kill each other without even a token attempt at negotiation is bad enough. Being the one to personally make it happen is worse.

[Razakai]

EoR is far better paced than AoA. Post Dreadfell fatigue sets in for a lot of people as there's a ridiculous amount of content, but the mechanics encourage you to hit up every single boss in order to get artifacts. EoR cutting it down to 20 dungeons max, with a fair few being side-dungeons works a lot better. That alone makes it superior for me.

[darkgod]

DOn't worry Velorien, the future is bright! well; there is a future at least!
*writing down plot for next campaign*

[Hogulus]

[EoR story spoilers]

Personally, while I've enjoyed EoR (haven't beaten the final boss yet - got one-shotted by an Inner Demon when I made it to the final dungeon), I hate how it undoes so much of the work you did in AoA. You go to so much effort to defeat the orcs, save the sun paladin civilisation and put an end to the interminable cycle of war and vengeance... and then some random orc hero turns up, massacres the people you saved, kills Aeryn after all the effort you went to to protect her, and frees another generation of orcs with a now even bigger grudge against the rest of the world. The destruction of the farportal does help... for however long it takes until someone finds a way to link the continents again.

Not saying that the sun paladins' orc internment camps were the greatest ethical achievement of the century, but I thought it was pretty good going given they needed to find a solution to centuries of hatred and had only been at it for a couple of years. In a world as dark as Maj'Eyal's, complete genocide would not have been unexpected. After all, they already thought they'd done it once.

Anyway, I had fun with the varied new enemies and mechanics, but I didn't like the slowly dawning realisation that, in relation to AoA, I was playing the "evil" campaign without meaning to. Watching two sides who could perfectly well find a way to coexist in peace if they made an actual effort (Kruk *was* the pacifist pride) trying to kill each other without even a token attempt at negotiation is bad enough. Being the one to personally make it happen is worse.

Things aren't quite as grim as they seem. A lot of Sunwall civilians (and some military) evacuated through the farportal, and the orcs are too busy celebrating the idea that nobody's trying to kill them right now to want to screw that up just yet; it's likely that either side would destroy a portal if they found it. Furthermore, peace wouldn't have been quite so easy... The internment camp was largely an Allied Kingdoms project, and the Sunwall were of mixed feelings regarding it, on account of having spent the last age near-literally backed up against a wall (well, a mountain range). There were more than a few Commander Trelles just waiting for an opportunity to do something dumb and force the orcs' hand, even if Aeryn and the majority of the Sunwall were on board with Tolak's plan.

But yeah, Aeryn's death is just a tragedy (and having to kill her lover to get off the peninsula before you can even run into her didn't help matters). War is hell

[...]very little 'outside world exploration' or 'general Var'Eyal lore', as it just focused on the Orc Campaign[...]

Yeah, sorry about this - honestly I was a bit short on ideas for non-zone-based developments in Var'Eyal to write about! I'll definitely have more "side" lore in the next campaign, as it should be a bit easier to find material for it given what said campaign involves.

[Davion Fuxa]

[...]very little 'outside world exploration' or 'general Var'Eyal lore', as it just focused on the Orc Campaign[...]

Yeah, sorry about this - honestly I was a bit short on ideas for non-zone-based developments in Var'Eyal to write about! I'll definitely have more "side" lore in the next campaign, as it should be a bit easier to find material for it given what said campaign involves.

Cool, sign me up for the forum board dedicated to that when it comes out.

[Davion Fuxa]

So, I had a stray thought, but something of note I think worth mentioning has to do with what races and classes you can play with Embers of Rage versus Age of Ascendancy. To recount playing the Orc DLC, you start off with the Orc race - and through capturing yeti's in the Yeti Caves and defeating the boss in Krimbul territory you can unlock the Kruk Yeti's and the Whitehoof Minotaurs. Additionally, you can play as Meta-Class Warriors or as Meta-Class Tinkerers initially - and through freeing the Orcs from the Internment Camp you will progressively unlock all the other classes in game.

Personally I found unlocking the races in the Embers of Rage campaign fine, but the classes being locked and unlocked was worse then it was for the Original Campaign. I realize that there was probably more emphasis perhaps on playing the Tinkerer classes since Kruk Pride would be a bunch of peons (to use the Warcraft term) and would necessarily be anything special as the other classes from the other Prides. I think it likely would have been better if we had more then just the two Meta-classes to play - or at least, it would have been better to have a more diverse set of classes one could play.

Not sure what other people might think here but I would hope for any future campaign we could perhaps see less restrictions (or restrictions that could be easily and quickly unlocked) as to what was seen with EoR.