"Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

[nekarcos]

Update: The bugs nsrr mentioned earlier turned out being a lot more "problematic" than expected! It seems I'm a bit delayed again...

- The "Manage Inventory" order appearing on Escorts is a "possible" game exploit and needs to be fixed post-haste! Not to mention this is "leaky" behavior-- Which I have ensured there will be absolutely NONE of when you use my add-on. As such, it needs to be sorted out before I can post another update.

- Because rexorcorum went through so much trouble to create such lovely artwork for my add-on out of complete generosity, it behooves me to do whatever is necessary to make sure they're ALWAYS functioning with NO buggy behavior whatsoever. With that said though... The "Restart With Same Character" bug... Well, the solution is being rather elusive. If it takes too long, I will just have to employ a "nuclear" solution to get it done quickly.

- I want to produce as much immersion as possible-- It's one of the most important things I promise with "Odyssey of The Summoner". As such, something strange like The Summoner REPEATEDLY conversing with you against your will is something I need to address-- IMMEDIATELY.


... So, long story short... The update is being delayed... EVEN LONGER... But it's coming. I'm working on it, and it's definitely coming.
Again, sorry for this inconvenience. I wish I could fix that "First Discipline" issue RIGHT this moment, but there have been a lot of... "Inhibiting" circumstances recent, hm?

Don't let this dissuade you from posting any more issues/bugs you encounter though-- I only delayed the updated because these bugs are actually a few things I consider UTMOST priority.

Thanks everyone for your (assumed) patience!

[Tinyshockwave]

Ok, so my first real "Clever" hydra just died, level 20 and on the way to dreadfall (really bad ambush killed me). I did, however, get a chance to try a lot of new things out, so here are my thoughts so far. Sorry if I'm repeating anything, I've kept up decently with this topic but I haven't read quite everything and I can be forgetful.

Breaths: I know this has been said a lot how strong they are, but they did the bulk of the work this run, despite me only maxing the first ability and putting points in two more for heads... granted, I didn't even make it out of what I would consider the early game, and I'm sure they will fall off in scaling soon enough, but it's worth a quick mention.

Glares: Like I said before, I really like this tree. Stacking fears takes time but is really rewarding. In this run, the Minotaur boss didn't even damage me once, by the time he closed in he was too hard cc'ed. Damage-wise the tree is lacking, but that's probably intentional, but I don't really see much point in using it. Maybe the last ability scales well? I will have to try putting more points into it.

Mist Beast: I love the concept and plans keep forming in my mind how to use it, but practical application has felt hard. Part of it might be the way Tome works with aggro'd monsters, and how they always kinda know where you are once they are on to you, but also I was getting pelted by boulders and stuff while I should have been hidden, and I'm pretty sure the AI doesn't take pot shots. However, I'd have to do more testing with that to know if they really were seeing me, or just finding me because that's just what they can do. "Mist lurker" also confused me at first, but now I understand it better. It gives sight of enemies in the mist, rather than just letting me see through it. The random teleporting did almost screw me over a couple times, but that was just my fault. Overall it wasn't particularly use where I got, but I bet the third ability would start to help. If the hallucinations work how it sounds, they should be another thing enemies can agrro onto, and if an enemy can't see me but can see them, they should change aggro. That would make it much more useful. Now, there was big negative I found to this tree(and this may have already been pointed out, sorry if it has)- it has anti-synergy with Glares. If the enemy looses line of sight of me from the mist, they loose the gauze. This meant I only really used mist when there was a lot of weaker enemies, so there was no good target to glare at, so that I could be a bit safer spamming breaths at the crowd. I guess that's kinda the point of mist, to lock down a crowd, but with bosses I'd have to make a choice between which tree I wanted to use. Just an interesting interaction I found.

Swamp Beast: I didn't get much time to try this out so not much to say here yet. It looks like it will have excellent utility, and a guaranteed blind. This plus Mist would really make an area "mine," which would be pretty cool.

Glob: I didn't actually unlock and use this tree, but I planned to at least try it out. I need some kind of source of damage in this build, and they might be able to provide it. My main concern is how late this whole build gets going, with at least three category points being needed. Avatars do get another I think I heard, so that would help. Talent points will be starved, but that's fine, plenty of classes are like that.

One thought I had about the "Cunning" Hydra is which heads I need. I got all four drooling heads for the cool down on breaths, but also because they seam like the ones needed for all three of those unlocked trees. Are gaze heads used anywhere other than glare hydra? I vaguely remember this being answered much earlier in this forum, but i didn't see it. Now glare heads certainly don't seem like the kind of things to be spitting mist and water, I'm not saying they should be used here, more just wondering.

Lastly I tried corrupting the heart of the sand worm queen. Honestly this was probably what condemned the run, but I'm fine with that. I was curious and now I know what it does, even if i wasted a couple deaths making it happen... On a related note, blighted summoning is certainly.. interesting. Not what I want for this build, though. The "passive" it give that describes the effect said it gives corruption abilities or something. All I had was a new locked talent tree that used health to cast, even though I got a vim bar, so I was a bit confused.

I hope I don't sound negative here, I am really liking this play style and will be jumping back in soon to give it another, improved, and less suicidal, shot. These are just my thoughts, questions, and concerns I had.

[nekarcos]

@Tinyshockwave
I hope you (and anybody else reading this) is ready for a long read-- This was a fairly wordy one!

*** Also, I KNOW I said "Blighted" stuff is no longer considered spoiler, but I STILL feel I should warn you that I "spill" a lot of secrets/gimmicks about it here! Be warned!

RE: Breaths
Yeah, the nature of "Hydra Breath" talents are that they utterly DESTROY early game mobs, but become somewhat laughable late game when enemy HP scales up MUCH faster than you could possibly improve its damage. This is where using "Hydra Breath" talents becomes more of a "Clever" type of gameplay-- And hence, the rest of the talent tree-- So it's perfectly reasonable to ONLY get the first talent if you're just going to stand in the enemy's face anyways.

RE: Glares
The idea behind this talent tree (which I think is still lacking at the moment) is the ability to "selectively" cripple the fighting abilities of giant mobs-- And hence, "manipulate" the flow of damage you're receiving (this by applying "Stare Downs" where you deem necessary). The whole tree intends to "slow down" combat to a crawl, then slowly "melt" everyone involve-- And then, of course, to finally "finish them off" with the last talent.
It doesn't make sense now-- But you'll reach a point in the game where "Big, Nasty Bosses" are as common as sulphur in a volcano, and you'll DEFINITELY be glad you had the ability to use these. That being said though... It seems this tree's usages are limited, and is DEFINITELY not a good category to focus on-- Which is a design problem (since I'm basically presenting you with 3 different playstyle, they should ALL be somewhat viable to a degree).

RE: Mist Beast ~ Pot Shots
... I hate to say it-- But ToME enemies are nutty as all heck. They WILL, in fact, take pot shots ALL the time-- EVERY chance they get-- Sometimes even pelting (and KILLING!) their own buddies. Go ahead and put on some telepathy after aggroing a group of mobs. There are times they will even hit each other-- OR THEMSELVES!!
... And so, I'll admit: I made this tree and its functionalities BEFORE realizing this is the way enemies behaved in a state of blindness-- And only discovered this... "Thing" they do while I was testing the talent tree.
... Nevertheless-- It's still extremely effective (since you can sometimes make enemies provoke attacks onto one another)-- And you can even "deaggro" certain mobs simply by being out of sight for a long enough time.

RE: Mist Beast ~ Mist Lurker
This talent works best when you have "Hallucinations". Otherwise, it's only really useful for "semi-reliably" teleporting yourself away from something that catches you (the trick is to position the fog such that you are on the edge. This will ENSURE you teleport in the direction you want!)
In the future, I might give it some sort of damage reduction property-- But, for the time being, I'm curious about how powerful it is when combined with a set of "Voidlurker" egos (bonuses upon teleportation).

RE: Mist Beast ~ Breaks Gazes
I THINK this might be a glitch due to "remnant" code. The gaze isn't supposed to break if THEY lose sight of you-- It only matters if YOU can see them-- Which you can (since you probably have "Mist Lurker" and gained telepathy of them).
You're definitely right-- I do not intend for ANY kind of conflicting mechanics between talents, so I'll need to make sure these two talent trees are behaving nicely with one another...

RE: Lurking Beast ~ Getting your feet wet
I KEEP forgetting to remove that stupid thing that makes YOU get Drenched if you touch your own water. THIS WAS COMPLETELY UNINTENTIONAL AND I HATE IT!!

RE: Mist-Lurking Burrowing Beast
This gets pretty dumb when you're swimming through misty water inside of a wall.

RE: Glob ~ Starved Points
Honestly, I don't feel like most of the "Clever" trees reward you enough for investing 5/5 in a talent-- Which is awful and disappointing. I think I will turn a whole bunch of them into "halfies"-- Much like "Discretion" or most of the "Hydragon" talent tree.

RE: Which heads do I need?
Feral heads are ONLY necessary for "Feral Hydra" talents. Glare heads are ONLY necessary for "Glare Hydra" talents. Drool heads are ONLY necessary for "Breath Hydra" talents.
... However, "Ravenous Beast" is a talent tree that makes use of ANY number of heads you have (the more heads, the stronger it gets), and "Triad" is most effective when you have the highest amount of every "hydra" head.
So, in all honesty, you can have ANY kind of head you want-- "Mist Beast", "Lurking Beast", and "Glob" will remain as effective as always. It's only "Ravenous Beast" and "Triad" that get affected by head quantity.


RE: Retrying Cleverness
Just keep in mind this is a rather "untested" branch of Hydra play, so you can expect A LOT of healthy, "quality of life" and improvement types of buffs, given I gather enough feedback.


EDIT: Reading this back, I realized this is REEAAAAAAAAALLY spoilery!!! LAST WARNING!!! DO NOT READ PAST THIS POINT IF YOU DON'T WANT "CORRUPTION" SPOILERS!


RE: Corrupted? Bleh...
There is currently a lack of implementation here, I believe. You can return to The Summoner with a prodigy point, and he will give you a new prodigy that will "enhance" your corrupted form, returning the points you lost and MORE, as well as giving you a few other bonuses. Particularly, (if you were paying attention to a discussion I was having earlier about additional Blighted talent trees), THIS is how you would unlock the 2nd blighted talent tree-- Which would be SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than the standard one you get.
Long story short-- "Corruption" is entirely a gimmick thing-- And I'm curious if anyone will find an "excellent" way of using each of them. Particularly, Hydra's Blighted tree is INSANELY strong if you're stacking Maximum Life.

... Oh-- And one more thing: I haven't implemented a pop-up yet, but eating a "Corrupted Sandworm Heart" unlocks the ability to become a "Blighted" Avatar at birth. Don't say I didn't warn you though...!


RE: Corrupted Form
You should totally try wearing A BUNCH of objects with A LOT of antimagic properties. I bet cool things will happen!

RE: Why I Vim?
"Blood Geyser" does not function off of a conventional "Mana-Burnable" resource meter (Fire Drake = Mana, Ritch = Souls)-- Which would mean a Blighted Hydra would have absolutely NO trouble fighting antimagics whatsoever! So, I (rather hastily) slapped on a useless vim meter, such that there will, AT LEAST, be some repercussions to fighting antimagics as a Hydra.

... Or maybe that "2nd Blighted Talent Tree" will involve something with Vim...? Who knows... Only I do.

[daed4]

... Oh-- And one more thing: I haven't implemented a pop-up yet, but eating a "Corrupted Sandworm Heart" unlocks the ability to become a "Blighted" Avatar at birth. Don't say I didn't warn you though...

Is this implemented as a normal class or implemented as something that popouts after you create your character.

Asking since there is no ???? locked classes and unlock addons (which even unlock stuff like golems) don't seem to unlock these either.

[nsrr]

... conventional "Mana-Burnable" resource meter (Fire Drake = Mana, Ritch = Souls) ...

How do you mean "Mana-Burnable"? Souls aren't affected by Manaburn damage. This only affects Mana, Vim, Positive and Negative energy.
From mod/class/actor:

Code: Select all

--- Burn arcane resources
-- @param damage how much to burn
-- @return how much have been burned
function _M:burnArcaneResources(damage)
	local mana = math.min(self:getMana(), damage)
	local vim = math.min(self:getVim(), damage/2)
	local pos = math.min(self:getPositive(), damage/4)
	local neg = math.min(self:getNegative(), damage/4)
	self:incMana(-mana)
	self:incVim(-vim)
	self:incPositive(-pos)
	self:incNegative(-neg)

	return math.max(mana, vim * 2, pos * 4, neg * 4)
end

Am I taking that too literally and you're not talking about Manaburn damage, but something else, or am I just missing something?

[nekarcos]

@daed4
It's a "Customize" option-- The same place you pick cosmetic choices like "Red Hair" and such.


@nsrr
I actually meant "Arcane" resources (as in, "magic-associated")-- But OH! You brought up another good point!

... Hmmm... I could SWEAR Souls were mana-burnable...

... Very well. I guess I won't bother giving Hydra a resource at all then (since Ritch is already there!)
This, however, exposes a weakness for Fire Drake-- Which I don't like at all...

[daed4]

@daed4
It's a "Customize" option-- The same place you pick cosmetic choices like "Red Hair" and such.

So it's a cosmetic thing? That does make more sense!

[nekarcos]

@daed4
It's a "Customize" option-- The same place you pick cosmetic choices like "Red Hair" and such.

So it's a cosmetic thing? That does make more sense!

Ya-- I hear poison-spewing Dragon-Golems for Alchemist is a purely cosmetic thing too.

Y'know, you could always write up some code for a custom birther and give it to me! I hear you're an amazing developer who knows a lot about ToME...

[nsrr]

This, however, exposes a weakness for Fire Drake-- Which I don't like at all...

Maybe you could compensate them somehow? When they become corrupted they could gain a passive ability that reduces Manaburn damage by their Fire resistance, or some percent of it?

[nekarcos]

Maybe you could compensate them somehow? When they become corrupted they could gain a passive ability that reduces Manaburn damage by their Fire resistance, or some percent of it?

Nope. Just got an EVEN BETTER idea. Everyone will love it! ... Well, actually, no one will love it. In fact, they'll probably hate it. I'LL still love it though-- Here, where I am safe from the devious designs of that mischievous Nekarcos...

... Oh wait, that's me.


Yeaaaaaaaaaaah!!!

[nsrr]

Just got the following error:
http://imgur.com/a/litHW

I was fighting a rare mold that had summoned shadows. This error popped when I killed the mold, as far as I could tell.

Edit: Given the error, I'm assuming it was related to Merciless Killing, but here's the character link, in case it's helpful: http://te4.org/characters/177873/tome/5 ... a77e848520

[nekarcos]

@nsrr
Already fixed it.

... At least, I could swear I already fixed that... Getting a severe case of Groundhog Day...

... Maybe that was in this update I'm working on? Uggghh...

[nekarcos]

Update: "You win "Restart With Same Character" bug... FOR NOW."

I've conceded that I've lost this round against this elusive bug-- And, at this point, it's clogging up the pipeline so badly that EVERYONE is suffering for it. For this reason, I'm just going to have to release everything else and CONTINUE my war on the bug afterwards.

As such, the next update is coming TOMORROW. It's going to be a BIG update, because it has 3-4 days worth of work, implementation, and bug fixes.

You can look forward to it!

[Tinyshockwave]

RE: Mist Beast ~ Breaks Gazes
I THINK this might be a glitch due to "remnant" code. The gaze isn't supposed to break if THEY lose sight of you-- It only matters if YOU can see them-- Which you can (since you probably have "Mist Lurker" and gained telepathy of them).
You're definitely right-- I do not intend for ANY kind of conflicting mechanics between talents, so I'll need to make sure these two talent trees are behaving nicely with one another...

As far as breaking gazes goes, I've noticed some weirdness, and it seems like the ability is not working as intended. On my new character, I was just using the maze (nice corridors)+slowing globs to confirm this: Gazes appear to be entirely dependent on the enemies line of sight, or I suppose it could not be checking for either and just makes sure there is vision possible (i.e. no walls in between). The gazes are staying on enemies out of my sight range, which i can tell because in I keep the buff saying a head is gazing, and when i let the enemy come back closer he still has the debuff. I know they can see me, because the player lantern light lets enemies see me in their normal 10 range. I also was able to apply gazes to enemies out of my sight. I also distinctly remember the telepathy from mist not letting me gaze, but I can't test it right now and will fully confirm this once I can. Overall this is a minor thing, and honestly probably favorable unless I start using blinds, but still seems to be unintended.

[Arsonius]

Hello. I like the addon, it certainly feels different from standart ToME experience and I also like how each avatar has distinct gameplay. I can't wait to see melee summons, story continuatuion and whatever else you have in store for future updates.

I've come here to report a bug, but it was already reported by nsrr, error log is the same and it popped up on death of rare enemy while playing Ritch.

So I guess I'll write about my experiences with addon instead:
So far my furthest playthrough as an Avatar has been lvl 27 Hydra who managed to clear all quest locations up to the Dreadfell, in the middle of which she died to some archmage rare. It was sort of "clever" hydra you mentioned with some breaths and some glares. I found the Mist tree and especially Mist itself very useful - it was probably the main reason why I was able to kill mummy boss and several other tough enemies. I also experienced glares not working in mist like others said, although it was on previous version. Here it is: http://te4.org/characters/56415/tome/3b ... ae147a309d

About ritches:
Getting category points on start feels unusual, but I can't really say if it's good or bad.
I think Cold Blood need something else then exp bonus going on. Ritch already has exp bonus and will likely to get to lvl 50 long before High Peak, and besides enemies scale off your level anyway. While 2nd and 3rd talents are useful, there are still so much better generic options for ritch. Well maybe put one point for those commentaries like "splendid kill" and "were you even trying". Maybe Cold Blood tree could give Wild Power like Dragon Scales?

It would be nice if there were no cooldown on Consume or something else to achieve similar effect. If the issue here is with consuming infusions mid-battle, maybe there could be a separate talent specifically for consuming infusions which would have cooldown?

There are a few other things, but they are based on experience with previous version, so maybe you fixed it already:
4th talent from Mist Hydra talent tree kept going on cooldown every time upon switching location.
Pyro Wheel stuns allies contrary to what description leads to assume.
Long-termed inspiration shouldn't be replaced by newer with shorter length I think, would be even better if they would just stack (in my case 20+ turns inspiration was replaced by 2-turns long one before I could use it).
Also for some reason sometimes I didn't get inspiration at all, despite getting message in the log.