Give the Alchemist a little love !

All new ideas for the upcoming releases of ToME 4.x.x should be discussed here

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ibanix
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#16 Post by ibanix »

Frankly, when's the last time you didn't fully upgrade your basic bombs and Goly before you even THOUGHT of leveling all those ?
Here's an idea: Not all talents are equal, and for some classes, there is a correct order to take them.

You have correctly determined the order for Alchemist.
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ibanix
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#17 Post by ibanix »

Some thoughts while playing my Alchemist character:

Alchemists are currently defined as -
* Using gems for energy (and powering items as an side)
* Elemental damage
* Golem builder

A way to "spruce up" the class that would make for interesting and unique flavor without going crazy, may be to look more at the "items" side of the equation. Currently all you can do is imbue a gem into an armor, or helmets/belts if you take the right prodigy.

What if you could transmute (move) an ego from one item to another?

I'm thinking of a new tree for alchemists (Thaumaturgy? Hermetics? Enchanment?) that would allow the alchemist to move an ego from one item to another item, of similar type (belt to belt, light armor to light armor, weapon to weapon, etc). Original item destroyed in the process. Only works once on an item (or: twice at talent level 5). Scales to what you items you can do this on based on talent level (eg you need talent level 5 to work on T5 items).

I haven't completely thought through the idea, but it has some intriguing possibilities.
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grobblewobble
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#18 Post by grobblewobble »

ibanix wrote:Smoke Bomb blocks LoS.

You get force teleported into a room with a half-dozen spellcasters. Or open a door into a vault with the same number. Poof. Now they can't see you. On the other hand, you can drop a huge-radius bomb onto them sight unseen.
If you're using a fire infusion, the bomb clears the smoke and you would have been better off bombing them straight away.

Maybe if you're using a non-fire elemental infusion, I guess.

Then again, this means that the whole "burn spreading" part of the skill actually makes it worse! If something is on fire, all monsters near it will already be on fire as well. It does not even increase the duration of existing burns..

bpat
Uruivellas
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#19 Post by bpat »

A big issue is that Throw Bomb needs 15 points to be good. I think the Bomb should never harm allies so Alchemist Protection can be removed and Explosion Expert should be merged with Throw Bomb. Boom now you save 10 class points and we can replace those silly passives with other useful stuff.
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Atarlost
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#20 Post by Atarlost »

I've always wanted it to be an option to do without the golem. They've got staff combat, which has some melee stuff. I'd like to be able to get enough defensive and short range capability from the infusion trees or a new locked tree to be able to be a bomber without also being a pet class.
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pizdabol
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#21 Post by pizdabol »

The best thing that Alchemist had going on for him was the old fire tree, where the first skill was a super sweet single target burn and the second skill a smoke bomb, to replicate said burn :twisted: . Smoke Bomb is totally useless now. This was the only thing I've ever enjoyed about alchemists, can we have that back, please.

Strongpoint
Wyrmic
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#22 Post by Strongpoint »

I would love to see lighting infusion tree unlocked by default and have locked options:

Arcane infusion tree
Light infusion tree
Darkness infusion tree
Blight infusion tree

grobblewobble
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#23 Post by grobblewobble »

ibanix wrote:I'm thinking of a new tree for alchemists (Thaumaturgy? Hermetics? Enchanment?)
Yeah, what alchemists really need is one or two extra class trees (possibly starting locked) that are not directly related to bombs or golems.

The old fire alchemy tree used to fill this role. It added some variety to builds and also added a much needed place to invest your class points in, once you've got bombs and golems covered.

But now that the old fire alchemy tree has been changed into yet another bomb enhancement tree. The class sorely needs something to replace it. I think Ibanix is on the right track here. Thaumaturgy, hermetics, enhancement.. something along those lines.

HousePet
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#24 Post by HousePet »

Rough idea:

Transmutation
Transmute Foe: active. Transmute a portion of the target into raw elemental energy. Different effects based on current active Infusion.
None: Transmute into air. Does arcane damage.
Acid: Transmute into acid. Also corrodes the targets armour and weapon. At talent level 5 it corrodes adjacent enemies.
Energy: Transmute into electricity. Releases lightning to damage up to X nearby enemies.
Fire: Transmute into fire. The ground under the target is ignited. At talent level 5 it also ignites adjacent tiles.
Frost: Transmute into ice. Also freezes the target. At talent level 5 it freezes adjacent enemies.
The secondary effect of this talent has its strength scaled by how much damage the first part does to the target.

Transmute Staff: sustain. Transform your staff into a weapon of pure elemental energy. Different effects based on current active Infusion.
None: Weapon damage converted to arcane. Increases spellpower.
Acid: Weapon damage converted to acid. Increased armour penetration.
Energy: Weapon damage converted to lightning. Increased attack speed.
Fire: Weapon damage converted to fire. Increased accuracy.
Frost: Weapon damage converted to cold. Increased ice block piercing.

Alchemical Wall: active. Transmute terrain into raw elemental energies, making a wall. Different effects based on current active Infusion.
None: Wall does arcane damage and digs out walls to reach its full length.
Acid: Wall does acid damage and disarms.
Energy: Wall does lightning damage and blinds.
Fire: Wall does fire damage and ignites.
Frost: Wall does cold damage and slows.

Reform Self: active. Use elemental energies to heal yourself. Has a secondary effect based on current active Infusion.
None: Restores air.
Acid: Cures magical debuffs.
Energy: Restores turn energy.
Fire: Cures physical debuffs.
Frost: Cures mental debuffs.
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ibanix
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#25 Post by ibanix »

I wasn't ever really a fan of wall creation.

These ideas are OK, but they're not jumping out at me as THAT'S A GREAT IDEA!
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HousePet
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#26 Post by HousePet »

I said it was rough. :P
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Radon26
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#27 Post by Radon26 »

talents that do different things based on infusion? I can't say no.
not after suggesting something like that myself.

i am all for it.

Strongpoint
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#28 Post by Strongpoint »

Transmute Staff: sustain. Transform your staff into a weapon of pure elemental energy. Different effects based on current active Infusion.
None: Weapon damage converted to arcane. Increases spellpower.
Acid: Weapon damage converted to acid. Increased armour penetration.
Energy: Weapon damage converted to lightning. Increased attack speed.
Fire: Weapon damage converted to fire. Increased accuracy.
Frost: Weapon damage converted to cold. Increased ice block piercing.
None: +spellpower may be a good reason to not use infusions at al.
Acid: Weak.
Energy: Good
Cold: I suggest to give armor instead. It is nice to have a defensive option.
Fire: If bonus is good then Alchemist gloves become really good for alchemists.

Does weapon have to be a staff? I can imagine some non-staff alchemist builds.

ibanix
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#29 Post by ibanix »

grobblewobble wrote:
If you're using a fire infusion, the bomb clears the smoke and you would have been better off bombing them straight away.
According to a report in another thread, this is apparently /not/ true. If something is already effected by fire burn, the smoke is consumed; but if nothing is on fire, more fire later won't consume the smoke. So you can smoke-bomb for LoS blocking before dropping a fire bomb and not break your cover.

This is likely to be a bug.
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HousePet
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Re: Give the Alchemist a little love !

#30 Post by HousePet »

Nah, its just poor wording on Smoke Bomb.
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