Anthoril Overhaul Brainstorming

[Fayd]

So, I've had a thought to revise Anthoril, to make them a touch more interesting. My current thoughts are as follows, and I will be updating this thread as I come up with more ideas. Depending on my spare time I may code this? We'll see if I have time to learn the coding.

The general concept: instead of a pure spellpower class, the new idea is a mindpower/spellpower hybrid. I like the ideas of classes that draw from unique resource pools and draw on multiple power sources. We already have classes that rely on physical power and either mind or spell power, and I say why not mix it up even more?

Anthoril are, generally, what passes for Priests in ToME (though I will admit the idea of a hierophant class would be interesting but I need to FOCUS), and so the idea of a character who blends their mystical and psychic might is interesting. At the moment, I am planning that the Light based trees use magic, the Darkness trees use mind, and the twilight trees use some combo of both.

I'd like to have a lower and higher version of the light, dark, and twilight trees, but retain the general idea of hymns and chants.

I do not, at this time, know what trees I want to have, though I would appreciate your ideas.

[sajberhippien]

While this definately sounds intriguing, I think there's one big lore-chunk you'll have to address: how the Anorithils view magic/the spellblaze/anti-magic et cetera in that case. Mindpowers have a (weak, compared to nature) anti-magic theme going on, so someone that blends those might want to address that for the class to not feel "off".

That said, I fully support this idea - it sounds really interesting and would make them stand out.

[Micbran]

Weak anti-magic theme? I'm not really seeing it at all in psionics.

[Radon26]

not in the actual classes, but i think there was a lore, that mention nature evolving to stand even against the magic, which resulted in creating psionics.

[Izawwlgood]

One of the trees deals with some psychic stuff, but I kind of like the mechanic of MAGICALLY balancing light/dark spells, and think it stands on its own as a pure magic user.

I'm not very far into my Anorithil, but I hope the balancing of light/dark resource gets even cooler than it already is!

[Micbran]

While I do agree that Anthoril needs a rework, I don't think it needs to be spellpower/mindpower hybrid. The issue with that is that one side is going to be favored most of the time while the other side is just used for utility.

IMO, Anthoril should be based on a day-night cycle theme. Once a resource reaches its max you have a few turns of Corona/Eclipse, further empowering whichever type of spells it corresponds to (and possibly unlocking a spell to use that ends the buff prematurely and its power is determined by time left on the buff?). Once the buff ends, they are unable to gain resources from whatever resource the buff corresponds to (corona for positive, eclispe for negative). That way, Anthoril feels a little bit more like "Sun and Moon" centric.

[Izawwlgood]

There are a few things that I'd change about the class for balance/theme purposes.

Searing Light - This should apply a DoT instead of a lingering 'does damage every turn tile'.

Bathe in Light - This should only affect you.

Jumpgate - Needs a total rework, maybe scrapped entirely.

Hymns/Chants - Presently it seems like they're too situational to bother swapping, so I typically just go for defensive boosting or offensive outputs. I'd rather see there be some reason to swap between them, but not sure how to do that. Maybe instead make the first point in each tree be the Hymn/Chant, and subsequent points reduce the sustain cost, and points up the tree add additional effects culminating with an activation ability that does something based on prior investment and takes the Hymn/Chant off effect.

I think the problem I'm having right now is while the class is fun, I feel like the gyst is 'Convert light to dark, do lots of damage, cast some light spells which heal/shield/do aoe/do less damage, repeat'. There's not much significant interplay between light/dark.

[Mordy]

For the Hymns/Chants we could something like making the talent itself scale not with how many points you put in it but with how many points you put anywhere in the talent line/how many talents in the line you know. And improving a specific chant/hymn would only reduce it's cooldown.

[Micbran]

Or do something like what HousePet's Midnight addon did. One talent improves all 3 hymns/chants and the other 3 talents in the trees simply add on to the effects that you receive. Or activate an effect when you deactivate/activate a chant/hymns.

[Zizzo]

Searing Light - This should apply a DoT instead of a lingering 'does damage every turn tile'.

Not while luminous horrors have Searing Light, please...

Bathe in Light - This should only affect you.

Or player plus allies. Otherwise, it's basically useless if there are any hostiles near you.

[sajberhippien]

Hymns/Chants - Presently it seems like they're too situational to bother swapping, so I typically just go for defensive boosting or offensive outputs. I'd rather see there be some reason to swap between them, but not sure how to do that. Maybe instead make the first point in each tree be the Hymn/Chant, and subsequent points reduce the sustain cost, and points up the tree add additional effects culminating with an activation ability that does something based on prior investment and takes the Hymn/Chant off effect.

Have you checked out the Midnight addon? It does some of what you're looking for for the hymns/chants. Basically the four skills of each tree are kinda like this:
1st skill: Adds all three hymns/chants as usable skills with their main abilities (though somewhat changed, eg for the chants, each chant gives a bonus to a different save).
2nd skill: Adds light/darkness damage and some other effects (life regen for chants, %darkness damage for hymns).
3rd skill: Adds a bonus specifically when changing hymn/chant; for the chants, it's status removal (e.g. changing to the Chant of Fortress will cure you of some physical debuffs), for the hymns, it's a buff (e.g. changing to the Hymn of Shadows increases your movement speed similar to an infusion)
4th skill: Adds further bonus to the chants/hymns (fire/light damage for chants, damage beams for hymns)

Of all the things the Midnight mod does, that is for me the by far best change.

[Izawwlgood]

If only addons could be retroactively applied to characters!

[Atarlost]

There's no reason every talent has to be good for everyone. Several classes have mutually exclusive trees for weapons. If chants and hymns were flat categories like Combat Training there would no longer be a bias towards the first in each category, allowing the others to be used. This has the benefit of not messing up the generic talent point balance.

Yeah, I'm never going to take Fortress on a Paladin, but if it weren't for the talent tax I might take Resistance or Light and I can imagine taking any one on an Anorthil if they were a flat category. Hymn of Detection is pretty bad right now, but any of the others are already options even with the talent tax on the later ones.

I think they really should be kept as light investment categories. And that includes attention investment. The positive and negative energy management is enough stress for one class.

[HousePet]

Chants and Hymns certainly shouldn't require heavy investment (nothing in a generic should). But it would be good if heavy investment was also a viable option.

[astralInferno]

Mutually exclusive talents are literally satan.