http://te4.org/node/5768
v1.1
- Fixed an error caused by Rogue NPCs using Sticky Smoke
- Hide in Plain Sight's cooldown correctly decreases with talent level
--
Radon26
- Yeah, any talent with a cooldown can be affected by stun etc, even when it doesn't make much sense - in the main game Shoot can even be affected by Burning Hex. Bit weird but oh well.
- I'll consider making it more modular. Maybe just an option to give Rogue the new trees. Although I know DarkGod has mentioned considering adding the 'new' stuff into the main game but not the existing tree changes, so you might get your wish that way too.
Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.8
Moderator: Moderator
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.1
sooo is it intended, or "just a tome thing".
throwing knife has effectively no cooldown, but technically, it has a cooldown of 0.
the attack talent on the other hand has no cooldown at all.
i even checked in code.
pretty sure if you just removed the line it wouldn't be a thing any more.
throwing knife has effectively no cooldown, but technically, it has a cooldown of 0.
the attack talent on the other hand has no cooldown at all.
i even checked in code.
pretty sure if you just removed the line it wouldn't be a thing any more.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.1
Thoughts so far:
1) Most importantly, the class is a lot of fun. You're mobile and there's some really cool options.
2) Throwing knives seem to be counted as melee strikes for the purposes of on-hit stuff--poison ivy enemies poison you, for example. Pretty sure bows and slings don't do that.
3) Is there any way to get unarmed damage and on-hit unarmed stuff to show on hand slots for rogues? Even showing a damage range for Hidden Blades in parentheses would be nice, because as-is it's a layer of decisions you lack the information to make at present--there's a fair number of unarmed strikes here.
4) Quickdraw is too strong. It'd possibly be too strong even if the attack speed buff was removed, because as-is it's effectively an extra 50-100% damage on every melee attack (depending on whether you use a skill or not). Even if it did reduced damage, you'd still be getting poison/bleed/on-hit/on-crit, and the class has a lot of those effects.
5) Fan of Knives actually gets worse as you level it up. You never get very many knives by quiver standards, and once you get Quickdraw, you can go through them very quickly. As low levels, it's a good way to quickly hit a single target three times for your various on-hit effects, but if you hit any more enemies than that you're at risk of running out. At that point, your melee damage drops sharply and you lose the powerful option of throwing a knife at anything you can't just stab.
6) The class is too unkillable at higher levels. Danger Sense and Trained Reactions stack for big passive reductions (because big burst is usually what gets you), there's no reason not to just have Evasion set to auto-activate on enemy visible-and-adjacent (it's free and instant!), Misdirection screws up enemy projectiles, Serpent Blood gives the damage smearing effect, Venomous Strike is effectively a heal-at-will once you have Leeching Poison (especially with Quickdraw and Venomous Throw), Rogue's Brew lasts a long time and is a stamina regen AND powerful health regen AND a heroism infusion AND a stun cleanser, Sticky Smoke is an escape AND an evade AND an anti-burst... Plus the mobility options. And with Rogue's Brew covering Regeneration and Heroism and Wild, you have no reason not to go with a Skeleton, at which point you also have a heal and a dex-scaling shield and detrimental effects reduction. If you then find the Untouchable the game just breaks down and starts crying.
7) Artifice is just better than the other unlockable trees. Rogue's Brew alone might be worth the price of admission, because seriously, that list of benefits (and an excuse to go Skeleton)! Dart Launcher can take any enemy out of the fight for five turns (if they're left alone) and refreshes every eight. Sticky Smoke is another layer of don't-wanna-die. Hidden Blades is a nice bonus if you don't want any of the others.
8) Master Artificer is pretty poorly balanced. Assassinate is nice, but you don't really need another do-big-melee skill (and Toxins handles high-resistance enemies anyway). The Rogue's Brew bonuses are small potatoes, because any one artifact with either bonus will give you just as much. That leaves the contest between Sticky Smoke and Dart Launcher, but you have several passive defenses and no other source of sleep, much less one that ignores immunity, lasts five turns, and refreshes in eight. (I'm repeating that part because it's bonkers.)
9) Combat Techniques is pretty low-power compared to the other unlockable categories. Rush is nice and Blinding Speed is always good, but the other three (soon to be four) options are much higher priority.
As-is the class does enough raw damage, is mobile enough and has enough durability to render Stealth and Traps pretty much superfluous, especially considering their required point investment (which, later on, is conflicting directly with "do a million damage all the time" or "just don't ever die to things"). Power levels need to go down some here.
1) Most importantly, the class is a lot of fun. You're mobile and there's some really cool options.
2) Throwing knives seem to be counted as melee strikes for the purposes of on-hit stuff--poison ivy enemies poison you, for example. Pretty sure bows and slings don't do that.
3) Is there any way to get unarmed damage and on-hit unarmed stuff to show on hand slots for rogues? Even showing a damage range for Hidden Blades in parentheses would be nice, because as-is it's a layer of decisions you lack the information to make at present--there's a fair number of unarmed strikes here.
4) Quickdraw is too strong. It'd possibly be too strong even if the attack speed buff was removed, because as-is it's effectively an extra 50-100% damage on every melee attack (depending on whether you use a skill or not). Even if it did reduced damage, you'd still be getting poison/bleed/on-hit/on-crit, and the class has a lot of those effects.
5) Fan of Knives actually gets worse as you level it up. You never get very many knives by quiver standards, and once you get Quickdraw, you can go through them very quickly. As low levels, it's a good way to quickly hit a single target three times for your various on-hit effects, but if you hit any more enemies than that you're at risk of running out. At that point, your melee damage drops sharply and you lose the powerful option of throwing a knife at anything you can't just stab.
6) The class is too unkillable at higher levels. Danger Sense and Trained Reactions stack for big passive reductions (because big burst is usually what gets you), there's no reason not to just have Evasion set to auto-activate on enemy visible-and-adjacent (it's free and instant!), Misdirection screws up enemy projectiles, Serpent Blood gives the damage smearing effect, Venomous Strike is effectively a heal-at-will once you have Leeching Poison (especially with Quickdraw and Venomous Throw), Rogue's Brew lasts a long time and is a stamina regen AND powerful health regen AND a heroism infusion AND a stun cleanser, Sticky Smoke is an escape AND an evade AND an anti-burst... Plus the mobility options. And with Rogue's Brew covering Regeneration and Heroism and Wild, you have no reason not to go with a Skeleton, at which point you also have a heal and a dex-scaling shield and detrimental effects reduction. If you then find the Untouchable the game just breaks down and starts crying.
7) Artifice is just better than the other unlockable trees. Rogue's Brew alone might be worth the price of admission, because seriously, that list of benefits (and an excuse to go Skeleton)! Dart Launcher can take any enemy out of the fight for five turns (if they're left alone) and refreshes every eight. Sticky Smoke is another layer of don't-wanna-die. Hidden Blades is a nice bonus if you don't want any of the others.
8) Master Artificer is pretty poorly balanced. Assassinate is nice, but you don't really need another do-big-melee skill (and Toxins handles high-resistance enemies anyway). The Rogue's Brew bonuses are small potatoes, because any one artifact with either bonus will give you just as much. That leaves the contest between Sticky Smoke and Dart Launcher, but you have several passive defenses and no other source of sleep, much less one that ignores immunity, lasts five turns, and refreshes in eight. (I'm repeating that part because it's bonkers.)
9) Combat Techniques is pretty low-power compared to the other unlockable categories. Rush is nice and Blinding Speed is always good, but the other three (soon to be four) options are much higher priority.
As-is the class does enough raw damage, is mobile enough and has enough durability to render Stealth and Traps pretty much superfluous, especially considering their required point investment (which, later on, is conflicting directly with "do a million damage all the time" or "just don't ever die to things"). Power levels need to go down some here.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.1
Haha it wouldn't be one of my addon if the first draft wasn't hideously overpowered.
I'm going to sharply reduce the power of Artifice in all aspects as it's far too good. Wasnt expecting Dart to be such a hit though! I literally did the tree in one day so its a bit rushed. Will change the Master Artifice bonuses too.
Same with Quickdraw, will hit the numbers on it.
Yeah Throwing Knives counting as a melee is a limitation of my code. Making them true ranged is tough. I'll see about making Fan less of an ammo hog though.
I'll make Rogues Tools and Garrote display unarmed.
After Artifice nerfs settle will take another look at defences. Rogue's Brew is a big problem atm
I'm going to sharply reduce the power of Artifice in all aspects as it's far too good. Wasnt expecting Dart to be such a hit though! I literally did the tree in one day so its a bit rushed. Will change the Master Artifice bonuses too.
Same with Quickdraw, will hit the numbers on it.
Yeah Throwing Knives counting as a melee is a limitation of my code. Making them true ranged is tough. I'll see about making Fan less of an ammo hog though.
I'll make Rogues Tools and Garrote display unarmed.
After Artifice nerfs settle will take another look at defences. Rogue's Brew is a big problem atm
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.1
for the fan of knives
the problem with it is that you can put 3 points into it before putting a second point into expanding the pocket.
slightly larget stock at the beginning would obviously be nice.
as for max knifes per fan, it probably should scale with dex, rather than talent lvl.
also, just maaaayble reduce the talent cost to 20. might have missed, but i didn't really see any way for rogue to replenish stamina.
the problem with it is that you can put 3 points into it before putting a second point into expanding the pocket.
slightly larget stock at the beginning would obviously be nice.
as for max knifes per fan, it probably should scale with dex, rather than talent lvl.
also, just maaaayble reduce the talent cost to 20. might have missed, but i didn't really see any way for rogue to replenish stamina.
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ghostbuster
- Uruivellas
- Posts: 617
- Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:47 pm
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.1
In my opinion, the problem with rogue brew is that it does not scale. At level 10, a 100 regen for 6 turns is just insane. At level 50, why not, it is by far smaller than the heal+shield that archmages get.
Nerf it by at least two at low levels and make it scale with dex or char level.
BTW, you should mention that Tool Mastery must be restarted after investing point in it in order to have any change apply in the tools.
Nerf it by at least two at low levels and make it scale with dex or char level.
BTW, you should mention that Tool Mastery must be restarted after investing point in it in order to have any change apply in the tools.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.1
Most likely stuff atm is Rogue's Brew will be % of life/sta. Fan will cost 0 ammo or knives will get a larger quiver.
I want to give rogue a Stamina regeneration talent outside of tempo too. Maybe on Leeching poison? IDK yet.
I want to give rogue a Stamina regeneration talent outside of tempo too. Maybe on Leeching poison? IDK yet.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.2
http://te4.org/node/5774
v1.2
- Learning Rogue's Tools will display the damage of gloves for the purposes of Hidden Blades.
- Fixed a bug preventing the use of Garrote.
- Hidden Blades and Garrote only trigger against adjacent targets.
- Fan of Knives no longer costs ammo.
- Quickdraw has been reduced in power.
- Poison Gas Trap no longer deals friendly fire.
- Artifice has been reworked. Rogue's, Cunning and Intricate Tools each provide a single tool from a shared pool, and the power of tools is entirely dependent on the talent used to select them. Tools have had their effects and power levels revised.
- Hide in Plain Sight and Unseen Actions have been removed and replaced with Soothing Darkness and Shadow Dance.
Made some fairly drastic changes to Artifice to curb it's power level. Curious to hear how it stacks up now.
v1.2
- Learning Rogue's Tools will display the damage of gloves for the purposes of Hidden Blades.
- Fixed a bug preventing the use of Garrote.
- Hidden Blades and Garrote only trigger against adjacent targets.
- Fan of Knives no longer costs ammo.
- Quickdraw has been reduced in power.
- Poison Gas Trap no longer deals friendly fire.
- Artifice has been reworked. Rogue's, Cunning and Intricate Tools each provide a single tool from a shared pool, and the power of tools is entirely dependent on the talent used to select them. Tools have had their effects and power levels revised.
- Hide in Plain Sight and Unseen Actions have been removed and replaced with Soothing Darkness and Shadow Dance.
Made some fairly drastic changes to Artifice to curb it's power level. Curious to hear how it stacks up now.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.2
hmmm... what about...
error = "Lua Error: /data-assassin/damage_types.lua:122: attempt to index local 'dam' (a number value)\
At [C]:-1 __index\
At /data-assassin/damage_types.lua:122 projector\
At /engine/interface/ActorProject.lua:397 projectDoAct\
At /engine/interface/ActorProject.lua:484 projectDoStop\
At /engine/Projectile.lua:228 act\
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:126 tickLevel\
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:62 tick\
At /engine/GameTurnBased.lua:46 tick\
At /mod/class/Game.lua:1255 "
seen = true
reported = false
twice now for me, some ability has triggered an infinite bug cascade.
i think it was the smoke bomb.
error = "Lua Error: /data-assassin/damage_types.lua:122: attempt to index local 'dam' (a number value)\
At [C]:-1 __index\
At /data-assassin/damage_types.lua:122 projector\
At /engine/interface/ActorProject.lua:397 projectDoAct\
At /engine/interface/ActorProject.lua:484 projectDoStop\
At /engine/Projectile.lua:228 act\
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:126 tickLevel\
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:62 tick\
At /engine/GameTurnBased.lua:46 tick\
At /mod/class/Game.lua:1255 "
seen = true
reported = false
twice now for me, some ability has triggered an infinite bug cascade.
i think it was the smoke bomb.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.2
Yeah 122 is the smoke bomb line. Weird cause I changed it last version. Is that vs a Rogue rare or when you use smoke?
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.2
On moving with a rogue in the poisonous swamp after removing a rock in the Old Forest, I get
Code: Select all
Lua Error: /data-assassin/talents/techniques/duellist.lua:54: attempt to index field 'turn_procs' (a nil value)
At [C]:-1 __index
At /data-assassin/talents/techniques/duellist.lua:54 callTalent
At /mod/class/Actor.lua:4911
At /mod/class/Actor.lua:2664 onTakeHit
At /mod/class/Player.lua:683 onTakeHit
At /mod/class/interface/ActorLife.lua:40 takeHit
At /mod/class/Actor.lua:2708 takeHit
At /data/damage_types.lua:449 defaultProjector
At /data/damage_types.lua:771 projector
At /data/damage_types.lua:1683 projector
At /data/general/grids/water.lua:171 check
At /engine/Map.lua:798 checkEntity
At /mod/class/Actor.lua:617 act
At /mod/class/Player.lua:354 act
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:126 tickLevel
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:62 tick
At /engine/GameTurnBased.lua:46 tick
At /mod/class/Game.lua:1255
---------------- Stack Dump ----------------
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.2
ah yes, that's because Parry is trying to trigger against a trap, which lacks the right functions for the talent to work. I've made the fix locally and will put it out at the end of the day with a few other new things most likely. If it's causing you serious issues like infinite LUA errors, pop open the addon folder, go to data\talents\techniques\duellist.lua and add these 2 lines in below line 53 (where it says local t = self:getTalentFromId(self.T_PARRY) )
That will force Parry to exit if the 'attacker' is a trap.
Code: Select all
if not src.turn_procs then return nil end
if not src.__CLASSNAME ~= "mod.class.Grid" then return nil end
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.2
it was enemy using the smoke bomb.
i had a few more addons, but i doubt they had much impact. as far as i know, this addon is the only one that has anything to do with rogue's talent's.
well, activated multiclass challange make it inevitable to eventually meet a rogue.
i had a few more addons, but i doubt they had much impact. as far as i know, this addon is the only one that has anything to do with rogue's talent's.
well, activated multiclass challange make it inevitable to eventually meet a rogue.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.2
Odd. I'll try generating a rare with smoke bomb and see if I can replicate the bug.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.2
What version are you using? Did you update this add-on?Radon26 wrote:it was enemy using the smoke bomb.
i had a few more addons, but i doubt they had much impact. as far as i know, this addon is the only one that has anything to do with rogue's talent's.
well, activated multiclass challange make it inevitable to eventually meet a rogue.
I think I got the same bug as you, reported it, and it was fixed in the next version (1.1 to be exact).