Rogue buff ideas

[Razakai]

Giving the Rogue a whole new tree would be spiffy, if they weren't over-extended across so many trees already.

So yeah, give them some nice actives, and remove the boring dull talent-tax which takes up so many of their points now.

Archery would be one fine way to go. Not the only way, of course, but it's a fine idea.

I think the reason Rogue is so over-extended at the moment is they have so many weak talents. Compare it to a 'modern' melee class like Temporal Warden, Doombringer etc and each of their talents is worth like 2-3 Rogue talents combined. Lots of low impact actives and weak stat boosts. If you merged some together you'd have plenty of room for new trees.

For a ranged tree, Archery could work but I think I'd rather give something Rogue specific. You're right that ranged is a good niche though, as it alleviates the awful early game where a snake will out-melee you. Throwing Knives perhaps? My idea was making them a Dreamforge style setup with a 'fake' weapon that improves with talent points and behaves like a short ranged melee attack.

Though on this note, I spent the last few weeks doing a Rogue addon that I'm just tidying up the artwork for, and tweaking a few talents. DarkGod took a look and said that some (not all, as some changes are a bit too much to my personal taste) might go in, so hopefully that'll help Rogue out.

[Doctornull]

I think the reason Rogue is so over-extended at the moment is they have so many weak talents. Compare it to a 'modern' melee class like Temporal Warden, Doombringer etc and each of their talents is worth like 2-3 Rogue talents combined. Lots of low impact actives and weak stat boosts. If you merged some together you'd have plenty of room for new trees.

Yeah, I think you're right.

Lots of stuff that the Rogue pays for are things that other classes get bundled into other good talents (e.g. Reaving Combat). Bundling up the Rogue tax-talents into fewer better talents would go a long ways to making the class less underpowered.

For a ranged tree, Archery could work but I think I'd rather give something Rogue specific. You're right that ranged is a good niche though, as it alleviates the awful early game where a snake will out-melee you. Throwing Knives perhaps? My idea was making them a Dreamforge style setup with a 'fake' weapon that improves with talent points and behaves like a short ranged melee attack.

Hmm, I like the idea, but I'd like it more if it used your dagger stats.

Maybe something like:
- A basic Slings tree (unlocked)
- An archery tree (locked)
- Throwing Knives (high-level, locked) - uses your Dagger stats including Dagger Mastery (or Agile Mastery from Nulltweaks)

Rogue needs more high-level trees.

Though on this note, I spent the last few weeks doing a Rogue addon that I'm just tidying up the artwork for, and tweaking a few talents. DarkGod took a look and said that some (not all, as some changes are a bit too much to my personal taste) might go in, so hopefully that'll help Rogue out.

Some good stuff in there.

Overall, quite nice.

[Nagyhal]

I think the reason Rogue is so over-extended at the moment is they have so many weak talents. Compare it to a 'modern' melee class like Temporal Warden, Doombringer etc and each of their talents is worth like 2-3 Rogue talents combined. Lots of low impact actives and weak stat boosts. If you merged some together you'd have plenty of room for new trees.

This is exactly what I did in the Shadowblade remake I started creating for myself.

In other words, I agree!

[Strongpoint]

I think the reason Rogue is so over-extended at the moment is they have so many weak talents. Compare it to a 'modern' melee class like Temporal Warden, Doombringer etc and each of their talents is worth like 2-3 Rogue talents combined. Lots of low impact actives and weak stat boosts. If you merged some together you'd have plenty of room for new trees.

I like the idea but rogue's main trees are secondary for someone's else and it creates problems

For example If we roll dirty fighting and lethality in one tree then it will buff several classes than need no buffing. Combining Combat Techniques\Combat Veteran with something is even more out of the question.

BTW, One major problem of rogue class - there are no good cat point invests. Rogues have no good locked class or generic trees, no matching escort rewards, no synergy with any runes\infusions.

[Razakai]

It'd probably best be done as a more wide ranging rework where other affected classes get changes too. The primary ones would be Marauder/Shadowblade. Shadowblade could probably do with some changes as per Nagyhal's comments, and Marauder could just have some trees stripped and be compensated with a singular new class tree/buffs to Thuggery. You could also leave the old trees existing for other classes - e.g. if you altered Dirty Fighting you could leave the old one as unlockable for Berserker/Brawler etc.

And for a shameless plug, I ended up actually finishing my own Rogue rework over at http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=45361. Though like you said, does break other related classes so I'm working on making the other Rogue subclasses compatible.

[Atarlost]

I believe stealth is only on rogues and shadowblades, correct? If both classes are in need of buffing stealth could be buffed. For example making it possible for NPCs to completely lose target on stealthed targets.

Actually, I think lethality is also only on those two classes and contains one of the "tax" passives everyone's complaining about.