Verdant Class Pack: v2.3

[astralInferno]

(Loads up)

Hm. I don't think woodsman is gonna jive with my playstyle (which isn't in itself a problem), but the things I notice on just looking at it...
Woodcraft feels like it should be generic? Three passive abilities and a playstyle defining sustain. idk.
They don't get any form of bow mastery. This is kinda odd, since they get knife mastery via Handy Offhand.
Nor do they have many actives.
...Bow Trip is in fact their only straight up attack ability.

Command: Defend's description still says 'command one of your summoned creatures to attack a target creature.'

Wyrmic... looks really fun! But I'm not actually awake enough to slog to level ten to try it. @_@ Sorry, I'm bad at this.

[HousePet]

Whoops, misspelt the bow mastery category...

I can't put a class defining category as generic. That would be silly.

[kitemay]

got the stupid thing to let me in

[HousePet]

Uploaded a new version with a few less bugs: http://www.users.on.net/~curtisnd/tome-verdant.zip

[HousePet]

Any assistance with testing is greatly appreciated.

[marshmallowpeep]

I made a woodsman because it seems like a class I would like, but I stopped pretty quickly because the talent that's supposed to let you regenerate equilibrium on resting wasn't working, so I couldn't get it to go down.

That said, having experimented with a number of similar archer/summoner hybrid adventurers, I think it would be much better if the talent that allows your shots to ignore you allies was at the start rather than the end of the tree. It's an enormous pain to have your abilities conflict with each other like that.

I then tried the new summoner. I really like it, in theory, but there are issues. Did the Ritch really need to be nerfed so bad? Going from no cooldown to two turn cooldown is halved effectiveness. Also, the ant and porcupine are much weaker than the minotaur and ritch, respectively, with which they share cooldowns, costs, an durations. When I got the ant, it was hitting for about 17 and the minotaur was hitting for about 50. I don't think the porcupine ever managed to pin anything.

The minotaur's command: attack and command: defend are centered on the player rather than the minotaur, and command: attack gave me an error.

2015-11-26_00001.jpg (158.02 KiB) Viewed 5121 times

the porcupine's command:attack did ridiculously low damage. Single digits initial damage and 0 damage per turn bleed. Also got this error on using detonate on the porcupine.

2015-11-26_00002.jpg (154.42 KiB) Viewed 5121 times

Last, but not least, when I used detonate on an ant, I got this error

2015-11-26_00003.jpg (100.84 KiB) Viewed 5121 times

Which then repeated on every turn, effectively ending my game.

[HousePet]

Woohoo! Thanks for testing.

Yes, I have discovered the equilibrium regen issue. Will fix all the bugs you have reported and reupload.

I agree that being able to shoot past summoned critters needs to be available earlier. I'll have to think on how to arrange things.

I've found the no cooldown flamespit Ritch to be a bit OP and it does get another talent with either Blighted Summoning or Wild Summons. Will see how it goes.
Not sure what went wrong with Ant and Porcupine damage values. Did they appear to be short on any particular stat? Will give them a check and probably a boost.

[marshmallowpeep]

I don't entirely disagree that the non-modded flamespitters are a tad OP (they're probably the second best summon behind the dragon), but cutting their effectiveness in half seems a bit extreme to me.

They have the stats they say they have. I can't say as I know a lot about this game's inner math.

My ritch and porcupine are both rank 3. I happen to have 10% increased physical damage and 10% increased fire damage, so that's getting added.The ritch does 50 with his flamespit while the porcupine does 30 damage with his quillfire. I would expect the damage to be somewhat less because of the pin chance, but that's kind of a lot less, and I don't think I've ever seen him successfully pin anything. Meanwhile, the beam the porcupine does with Command: Attack is 3 damage and 0.32 bleed per turn for 5 turns when I cast it on myself, so there's clearly something going on there.

As for the ant vs. the minotaur, they're both rank 1. The ants have 18 damage on their character sheets and the minotaur has 30. The ant actually hits for 18, the minotaur actually hits for 40-50, plus he seems to generate with random weapon keywords that add another 5 or 10 sometimes. I know that the 10% increased physical damage accounts for some of that, but not all of it.

[HousePet]

Oh, the Quill damage scales with mindpower and the Porcupine only gets cunning not willpower, so it would do less. I shall make it scale with dexterity instead.
As for the command, I'm guessing the problem is that the damage formula is the one based on talent level and mindpower, and the Porcupine doesn't actually have any talent levels in Command Attack. I'll have to redo these.

Good point about the Minotaur weapon.

[HousePet]

New version here: http://www.users.on.net/~curtisnd/tome-verdant.zip

Hopefully fixed all the Commands problems.
Upped Giant Ant base damage by 15-20.
Porcupine Quills now scale with dexterity and use accuracy to apply the pin.
Hunter's Friend is now the first talent in Woodcraft. Other Woodcraft talents moved up.
Wild Hunter restores more equilibrium on kills.
Natural Attunement now reduces equilibrium on rest, not increases it.

[marshmallowpeep]

Made a woodsman, got this error on most, but not all of my bow shots. I tried experimenting to find a pattern, but I couldn't.

2015-11-27_00001.jpg (122.9 KiB) Viewed 5084 times

Also, I still started with a point in the second talent in the tree you rearranged, even though it's now the second talent.

Next I continued playing the summoner until I died in the sandworm lair. Got this one when doing command: attack with a giant ant.

2015-11-27_00001.jpg (122.9 KiB) Viewed 5084 times

Ants have 30 base damage on the character sheet now. So does the minotaur. Ants hit for 30 every hit, with no variation (except that caused by elemental interactions). Minotaur hits for 40-50 plus whatever weapon bonuses he randomly generates (so a total of 50-60 damage most of the time). Does the minotaur have a hidden mastery? Is it a matter of accuracy bonuses? Are the ants supposed to be weaker to be weaker to make up for the elemental stuff? Are they maybe better on high armor enemies, since it seems like they must be ignoring armor to always do exactly what it says on the sheet?


The new porcupine damage is 120, while the ritch still hits for 50. Porcupine also pins quite consistently now. I noticed that porcupine has about 70 dex while ritch has about 40 willpower, so that might explain a lot of what's going on there.

Frankly, while I love having all this extra stuff to do, without the OP ritch, and with the tier 3 and 4 summons coming so much later, I felt a lot weaker than a vanilla summoner, for levels 1-13, which is when I died.

[Chronosplit]

As of now, are the summoner tweaks optional?

[HousePet]

As of now, there aren't any summoner tweaks unless you are using the alpha version.

They will be optional when finished.

[HousePet]

Well that last version was full of copy pasta typo...
New version: http://www.users.on.net/~curtisnd/tome-verdant.zip

I've nerfed the Porcupine a little. I suspect people won't be too happy about being on the receiving end of that...

Are you using the Commands much? Was intending for them to compensate for no OP Ritch and give a bit more toughness to the class.

[marshmallowpeep]

Okay, so I made another dude, and died at level 13 again.

I think the ritch's command:attack might have the same problem as the porcupine used to. It almost never lands, and even when it does it's 0.32 damage per round. Rush is a great thing for the warhound to have, but it's more utility than offense so it didn't really help with the fact that I was feeling weak early on. The porcupine's command: attack is great. So is the spider's. So is the hydra's, although something slightly odd was going on. The normal damage was 220ish, but every once in a while it would hit for 80ish.

The ritch is still less than half as strong as the porcupine(18.2 damage on the ritch vs. 50.71 on the porcupine on my current level 5 character with one point each). The only time I ever wanted to summon the ritch was when everything else was on cooldown. The spider does pretty decent damage (about twice as much per round as the ritch, still slightly less that the porcupine) but it's only actual utility is a pin that's hits less often than the porcupine's, which makes it being in that tree seem a tad odd.

I did not see any lua errors this go around, but using the hydra with summon essence caused my game to hard crash. Everything stopped responding and the screen was blinking. I tried it with all the other summons I had and it functioned normally, except that rush and stun require stamina and it didn't actually give me any stamina to use them with. It bothered me a tiny bit that, since it's granting you new talents, they would just appear on the first available hotbar space.

Getting web from summon essence with the spider seems kind of silly because it's just such a weak ability. Using porcupine for the quillfire would always be better, and even if it wasn't I'm not sure a 4 turn pin and nothing else is worth spending a turn on.