Please make the "war on orcs" a bit more interesting

[Hazel]

Hey, let me tell you about my ideas on the East and your exploits in it.

The supposed "war on orcs", which an achievement will tell you about everytime you speak to Aeryn, does not feel meaningful and kinda misses a great opportunity.

Now, that the breeding pits are long gone, I think it would be the best time to discuss and maybe implement these ideas I thought about:

- some dialogue from Aeryn about important events, like the opening of a farportal to the west or killing prides: just some flavor text to go along with your achievements in the east.

Gameplay: reduce/weaken the orc patrols and increase/buff the Sunwall patrols.

When you first get to the east, the situation is hopeless. However, when you arrive you already will have done some nice things for the Sunwall:
- killing the orc ambush (maybe)
- killing Golbug in Reknor
- saving Fillarel:

And it's still the hopeless situation we always see (come to think of it, the orcs lost their own trade routes and supply lines to the west as soon as you cleared out Reknor and stole their Orb of Many Ways).

- The ambush: If you manage to defeat it, you should be rewarded: The orc patrols would be decreased by 1 permanently right from the start, giving you some breathing room as soon as you arrive in the east.

- Going into Ardhungol and saving the Sun Paladin would increase Sunwall patrols by one, as a powerful general returns and rejoins their ranks (They still mostly roam around the base though).

- Clearing out the Vor Armoury deprives the orcs of weapons and armor. This leads to powerful Orc Berserkers and fighters being unable to obtain weapons, forcing them to stay home (ie they're removed from the RNG determining what spawns in an orc patrol)

- opening trade with the west increases the "power" of the sunwall patrol units... I don't know what the mechanics behing these "patrol fights" are, but if there is something like a chance attached, then increase the odds for the Sunwall winning a bit.
Bonus: Doing this could maybe set off a reroll of the Sunwall stores. The store would reroll as a "stage 3 reroll" like after charred scar, but... earlier. This could be instead of Charred Scar reroll or in addition to it. It's not overpowered, because the gear competes with drops and the randart merchant, but it would be a nice and welcome touch.

- clearing the Dark Crypt deprives Orcs of surplus Necromancers, removing them from Patrols.

The prides: As you know, the prides is where the patrols actually spawn from. So, after clearing them out (going into their houses and stuff), it makes no sense for them to still spawn from them.

- every pride you clear out stops Patrols from spawning from it. The number of Orc Patrols on the map may only be Equal to or lower than the Number of uncleared prides at any point.

- after every pride is taken down, all Orc Patrols are wiped from the map, the Orcs aren't gone, but they're in hiding, waiting for their chance in the DLC.

So what do you think? It would be awesome to see this in 1.4. It really would add some value to a part of the game, many people agree on is kind of boring. So let's push the idea. Add your own ideas or comment on mine.

comments welcome. Cheers!

[astralInferno]

This makes sense to me. +1

[Radon26]

i agree +1

[Hazel]

Thank you, everyone!

I revised the intro post a bit to spell it out more clearly and introduce another idea of a stage 3 reroll at the Sunwall stores after opening trade routes with the west.

Keep 'em coming. Would be nice if one of the many great devs could comment or even maybe adapt the idea.

IMHO: improving Tome and fixing bugs is commendable and I really think that some thought should be given to the east. after the pits went, the east became not only more empty (it always was very empty for its somewhat big map size), but it became more meaningless. After Dreadfell you're going around: "Let's hunt some Orc!!1one", killing Ukruk and the ambush like a boss, clearing out Reknor, getting (for the first time) lauded for your insane killing abilities.

When you save Fillarel you already defeated three Orc bosses and disrupted a supply route (another one would be the portals at the top of high peak). Clearing out the unremarkable cave also would allow Fillarel to return to the Sunwall (would be nice to have her actually do that and be at the Sunwall from then on, with some unremarkable Flavor Text).

You did all that and it feels good, it's fun (Reknor's 4 levels is a bit long, though).

Now you talk to Aeryn and Zemekkys and the wife of that Sun Paladin: no pits, so you go straight to Ardhungol, you clear out the Armory, you go to Briagh, you return west, kill the Backup Guardians and then solve the whole Tannen-traitor problem. The orcs have no allies left in the West and the Sunwall opens up a new trade route....

.... and you don't feel it... In fact, after returning to the east, many people agree, comes the most boring parts. I don't feel too excited myself about the Dark Crypt, the Underwater Cave (especially the pesky Naga Temple) and the Limmir quest, which does not seem to pay off that much unless you got some Artifact materials to work with.

At least the Dark Crypt would have a meaning beyond a class unlock with my idea. and reducing Patrols is something many people like, as Patrols can be very unfair and they're a random element to the game, one that infuriates many people (Losing a RL character after having played 10+h stings especially badly).

The orc prides are kind of boring, too. something just makes them more boring than every other dungeon. The Gorbat one was improved recently and the Grushnak one is ok, too. But the other 2 are pretty boring. Eruan is 5 levels of numbness going through routines.

So, yeah. Making clearing out the prides more meaningful by being the definitive thing that reduces Orc Patrols until none are left and having Aeryn maybe comment on how with each of your exploits the pressure on them softens, would go a long way to hold your attention in this part of the game.

I also suggest something akin to the shorterTome4dungeons addon. Maybe not as furious, though. Just cut the Vor and that other pride to two levels and Eruan to two or three and it would be done pretty much.

Thank you for listening. Feel free to comment. It's your choice! How do you feel when you reach the part of the game where there's nothing left to do other than defeating the prides? How would you like to improve it, if you're not satisfied with it?

Cheers!

[Radon26]

what bugs me the most, is that the game automatically assume you to be good.
when you enter and are given the offer, i would like to have a chance to help the ork kill the anorithil, and then fight the war on their side.

probably not gonna happen because "end of the world" and all that... but i would love to have it.

and let ziguranths bring the damn staff to the zigur!!!! ITS AN ARCANE ARTEFACT!!! you could still have it ambushed if you must "because they couldn't destroy it i time" somehow...

[astralInferno]

Quibbling; the Staff of Absorption is powered by 'unknown forces'. While I'm sure the ziguranth would like to destroy it I very much doubt they could.

[Radon26]

also, mages could probably want to send it to anglowen, but with lilanill around, there is no way ANYONE is breaching that.
and its not that close.

but then what about temporal wardens... why can they not take the staff like in the fan made fiction?
whyle its un'breach'able, they have no excuse to not take it.
when you talk with the "grand warden" (or whatever is title is) he already knows about the meating in sunwell, therefore he has to know about the staff! and all temporals have the spell to get there!
"changing the history" doesn't really work as an excuse since... changing the reality is literally what they are all about.

[HousePet]

Well no, Not changing reality is what they are about.
The Grand Keeper also warns you about not interfering with his own past.

[astralInferno]

Presumably, if the wardens took the staff and kept it, things would go worse than if the events of the game play out.

That or they have /no idea/ what's gonna happen next. My story paints them as a lot more aware of the future than the game implies.

[Radon26]

when we meet zemekkys in the new hope, he is... much less than he is at point zero. some time must have passed for him to grow (sice he isn't the player character) so he is sure to know how this story ends. at the very least one version of the story.

[Bormoth]

There was once area that reduced orc patrols count upon completion but it was removed for some reason.

[darkgod]

Many good ideas! thanks

[Nagyhal]

what bugs me the most, is that the game automatically assume you to be good.
when you enter and are given the offer, i would like to have a chance to help the ork kill the anorithil, and then fight the war on their side.

I've always felt the same way! It's something about the design of the encounter. Aren't you placed roughly at an equal distance from each of them at the start? When you enter the room and - out of nowhere! - there are these two dueling leaders of two hugely important, opposing factions you've never dealt with before, two big bad bosses having a go at each other and the clueless player character in the middle, it really gives the impression that you're there to take a side.

I'm not saying this is the most amazing idea for the game at the moment, but I'd at least like to sit down and try and plot a branching version of the Far East mid-game where you can side with the orcs.

Would make for a very interesting / ambitious addon project.

Alternatively, the encounter could be better designed not to give the player false hopes!

[Radon26]

yeah, even more so, you never quite find Orks to act evil (except for when you are dwarf).

Not counting random mobs, your first actual encounter with them is the ambush.
There rather than attack you as soon as they see you, they ask for the staff.
From that i get they are willing to resolve it (even if rude) peacefully, but when player starts to argue they fast give up on the idea.
(adventurers are who they are, no one have too high hopes of them.)
And then when you lose, they don't take your life.
They are here for the staff alone, and have no interest in murdering people.

From that encounter i have a really hard time calling them evil.

then there is the second encounter in the Rek'nor.
they aren't exactly friendly but... you sort of are invading their home away from home.
and even then i think i recall the boss trying to scare you off, to which you respond something like "so the pride has a master", which really pisses him off.

in the end, the only reason for you to fight orcs, is because you are the player.
the blood hungry murder beast to slaughters everything in its path, and the history being a convenient excuse to forget their generosity.

yes, player is the evil one... well, i do kill both of them in the end, so i guess the game doesn't assume you to be "good", just the 2 of them assume that.
but the boss himself could at least remain neutral towards you until you attack him.

[darkgod]

Well tge game calls the vanilla player the Scourge of the West in the orcs campaign ..