Minor Ghoul Buff

[pizdabol]

Since Ghouls are already pretty underwhelming, as the general consensus seems to be, I propose we buff Leap a bit, to include a melee attack if targeted on an enemy. The description itself says you leap at your target after all.

Further thought: At Leap level 5 replace the melee attack with a free Gnaw of appropriate talent level (if you don't know Gnaw regular attack occurs). Also I've never really found Gnaw anywhere near strong enough (nor at all, really) to justify the severe damage penalty. Just make it hit for normal bump damage, me thinks is reasonable.

[Radon26]

whats special about gnaw, is that is the target die before it turns out, he is turned into a ghoul minion (if i rememeber correctly)
and it is a disease damage, so it should work well with a reaver? maybe.

[pizdabol]

Yes, Gnaw sounds pretty sexy on paper, in action I find it pretty underwhelming, for a tier 4 racial none the less. At least make the spawned Ghouls permanent, they expire after a couple of turns. Though I might be off on this one, Gnaw sucks so bad I rarely use it, even on reavers. As stated above having one more disease to use between virulent and epidemic, or spreading it with Cyst Burst to spawn a bunch of Ghouls at once sounds good on paper, in reality it's way too gimmicky to be actually useful, especially on higher difficulties. Permanent Ghouls and full bump damage, yes please. Oh, yes, and it scales off of one of the more useless stats in the game. Constitution or strength at least, for all ghoul talents?

Anyway, the highlight of this post was the melee attack on ghoulish leap, any thoughts on this one?

[stinkstink]

Personally, I'd like to see Gnaw get static 100% weapon damage, reduced cooldown with talent investment, and have it capable of replacing bump attacks like Double Strike does.

[Frumple]

I'd say everything but gnaw is just... fine. Leap is a costless short range perfect accuracy aimed teleport, which should be obvious as to how amazing that is -- if their first and third racials weren't so ruddy great, it would shine even more. It probably would even be reduced, to a degree, in effectiveness if it had a melee portion added on to it, especially if it required an enemy to be pointed at or auto-swung at nearby enemies (a potential problem for non-melee ghouls that really don't want to be triggering retribution/counter effects). The base passive has become one of the best first tier racial talents in the game since that damage cap got added to it. Retch matches up with mid to end game regen infusions and doubles as AoE damage and limited effect stripping -- it's golden, especially considering it's got synergy with at least three classes (necromancers, both non-dlc defilers via epidemic).

Gnaw could stand work, for reasons already mentioned, but I'd honestly worry it would mean the rest of their talents would need to be scaled back some if gnaw got scaled up. Still, as personal ideals go... make it a sustain (mostly so it can be turned off by enemy action, but secondarily to theme off the unending hunger thing most ghoul archtypes rock) that basically does flexible combat, except with the current gnaw effect instead of an unarmed attack. Otherwise mostly leave it alone. Maybe extend ghoul lifespan (or scaling) with talent investment if an extra bump is wanted beyond that.

[pizdabol]

I'm 100 percent with you on Leap, it is amazing, I was suggesting to add the melee attack if targeting an enemy while still being able to use it on an empty square. Adds more utility to it, especially nice for melee Ghouls who have it the worst, so you don't just waste one turn (one turn that already cost's you more than it does the other guy) trying to get to your target, in the rare cases you'll want to leap offensively. I know Leap is good already, but a humble bump attack won't make it that much better, it fits fluff, and will force you to make the strategic decision of using it as an offense or saving it for defense (so in a way it's not even a buff to the talent, just gives it dual purpose: when is the last time you've used Leap to attack? Dark Crypt? Should you even be there as a Ghoul? Come on, get out of there, no one's gonna judge.).

And again: The description states you leap at your target. Just makes more sense to me for leaping to involve attacking. Otherwise it should state you jump to your target and say Hi. First time I unlocked ghoul and was looking at the talents, I vehemently assumed you must have a target to leap to, got pleasantly surprised.

Yeah, Retch is pretty sweet too. Seriously, Ghouls should get more love. Constitution scaling is the only thing that bothers me about it, but I'm really not sure if I'd like to see it Constitution or Strength, since Constitution fits the ghoulish theme rather nicely, as useless as it is.

[Davion Fuxa]

Personally I think Leap is the strongest racial that Ghouls have and in relation to other teleport abilities. If you make it any stronger then it is going to start stepping on the likes of Giant Leap.

I'd be for a discussion focused on improving Gnaw (and perhaps Ghoul) since those talents are underwhelming.

[Radon26]

i suggest an indirect buff.
"of plague"
xx% chance to desease target.
what if that could apply desease that your character has chance to apply?
if you cared for the gnaw, you could just equip it, and have it work like that...

no?

well, whatever.

sure, a permanent companion would be nice, but if there isn't a limit added players may start hoarding them.
so how about "will only come back to life as a ghoul if there you don't already have 2-4 ghouls.

another suggestion.
for x turns, cover your weapon with xxxxx, giving it xx% chance on each attack to apply ghoulish rot.
yes, let it work with ranged. cause why the f*** not?

still no?
fine. how about...
bite your enemy for xxx% weapon damage as blight.
if the enemy dies, he is revived as a ghoul.

it doesn't need to be a disease effect.

[Strongpoint]

You'll need to clone that deception cloak to enter cities with a permanent ghoul companion

How about stealing crawl undead here? you can have as much permanent ghouls as you want, but they can't leave the level?

[Radon26]

do people freak out on the sight of a necromancer with his minions?

[Frumple]

Not only do they not freak, you occasionally get rare villagers toting necromancer class talents