How do mindstars do good damage?

[dukereg]

I've picked up countless mindstars and they always seem to have pitiful damage stats compared to other weapons I'm using. Even with huge armour penetration, some enemies just have heaps of HP and healing and not much armour, so I'm skeptical about that making up for it.

What am I missing? What makes mindstars do good damage?

[fateriddle]

You missed Mindstar Mastery. Can be purchased in Town Zigur.

[zsd]

Mindstars get better as the game progresses. They are the only weapon type whose damage modifiers increase by tier, and Psiblades increases those modifiers even further. Also, later game enemies have better armor, which makes the huge mindstar armor penetration more relevant.

And yes, like any weapon type, you want to max the weapon talent (Psiblades) for it. 500g unlocks the tree in Zigur, and 750g more bumps your mastery up by .2.

[dukereg]

Ok, thanks.

[OrionJAnderson]

First: Make sure you enable "advanced weapon stats" in the options -> UI menu. If you're trying to figure out how damage works, that's necessary. Second, make sure you understand how "range" works -- that's the randomizer that makes each hit different. When you mouse over your character and see your MH Damage listed, that's your damage based on physical power, weapon power, and the stats that your weapon uses. It doesn't include "range." Against an enemy with no armor or resist, the listed number is actually the lowest possible damage you could do -- you will normally do far more. For instance, battleaxes have range 1.5x. That means that if your listed damage is 30, you will do 30-45 damage per swing, or 37 on average. "Range" for mauls and battleaxes is a hidden +25% damage. 2-handed weapons have the highest ranges, one-handers have less, and utility weapons like mindstars, shields, and staves, have the least. I belive minstars have 1.1x range, which is effectively +5%. So part of your frustration is that your stars will be weaker than other weapons even when the listed damage is the same. Mindstars truly are late-game weapons. As others mentioned, high tier mindstars are a bigger improvement on lower tier mindstars than high-tier swords are on lower tier swords. They also pointed out that Pis-blades, the mindstar equivalent of weapon mastery, has a bigger impact on stars than on normal weapons. What they didn't point out is that like daggers, mind stars gain damage from 2 stats rather than one. A guy with 40 strength will deal a lot more damage with a maul than someone with 40 willpower and 10 cunning does with mind stars; Later on, the guy with 40 cunning AND 40 will will catch up a little. Also, there's a prodigy (superpower) that can add a lot of damage to mind stars. The other reason mind stars suck early on is that the best early-game weapons usually have "proc damage" -- erosion weapons, projection and thought-forged weapons, arcing, and so on. Procs become less exciting as the game goes on, but they're a big deal at low levels, and mind stars simply don't have procs except occasionally on weird rares.

Something that is easier to exploit in the late game, but may come up early: mind stars don't do physical damage; they either do mind or nature. If you can get a matching pair, you can boost the damage with hats and rings of +nature or +mind.

The other thing to consider is that mind stars aren't really meant to be conventional weapons. If you're just hitting people with them for damage, then you're not really using them as intended. I mean, you can do it, and people try it to feel clever and for bragging rights, but it's not meant to be good strategy. They often have reisistances and tank abilities, but more importantly, every mind star adds to mindpower and mind crit; some even give special bonuses to wild-, psionic- and hate-based abilities. To make the most of mindstars you should at minimum have some use for mindpower. Any character can use Mindpower if they join Zigur and take the anti-magic tree, and possibly to use skills granted by items (like the lightning attacks from eelskin armor). Normally, though, it's best that your class have at least some mind skills of its own. Of the wilder, psi, and afflicted classes, solipsists and summoners don't really use weapons; they'll equip mindstars anyway, but not to attack with. Oozemancers and Doomed have to use mind stars and have special skills for them. That leaves Cursed, Wyrmic, and Mindslayers are the classes who do use weapons, but can choose relatively freely between using mind stars or metal weapons.

[Effigy]

That was a really good post! I learned quite a bit about mindstars as well as the base weapon damage calculation.

[dukereg]

Likewise. I forgot to reply before, but that is a really helpful summary, especially the class recommendations.