[1.4.0] Stoic class revamp

[comrade raoul]

So I think this class is really awesome and I don't want to impose my preferences on it. But I worry whether Swashbuckling means it'll be getting most of its damage from daggers rather than main hand weapons--such that Stoics may be better off not bothering with larger weapons at all--which doesn't seem thematic. Is that your intention?

Maybe there are other elements of the class that disincentivize this, but I don't really see this. (Maybe Draw Stance is enough? But it seems mainly defensive.) Anyway, have you considered reversing Swashbuckling's benefit, such that you'd get two *main hand* attacks for every one off-hand one?
(This would make off-hand weapons more attractive for their defensive and general benefits rather than their offensive power, which seems fitting.)

[stinkstink]

That's a good point I hadn't thought of. When I made the talent originally, I had it use offhand attacks because I wasn't sure if doubled mainhand attacks would be too powerful. After thinking on it a bit in the shower, I'll probably switch it to perform a second mainhand attack with an offhand penalty.

[comrade raoul]

Sweet; I'll be really excited to play that version, if you do end up making the switch.

[stinkstink]

Finally putting out an update for this. Changes are too numerous to list individually, but major details include:
-Talents now use a unique resource, Focus, instead of Stamina
-Class trees have been reorganized for better thematic and mechanical grouping
-Advanced class trees have been split into shadow/lightning/fire/cold-themed ones, each with its own stance
-Three generic trees added, replacing Mobility and Conditioning
-Much of the code rewritten for better compatibility and to take advantage of callbacks

[daed4]

What does "Trigger counterattacks and crashing torrent" mean exactly, that it makes you attack more and can cast a crashing wave ala arcane combat?

Or that people can counter attack you from range if you hit them with those?

[stinkstink]

It means the projection attacks in the Dynamic Combat tree act as melee attacks in terms of dealing double damage to targets with the Counterstrike debuff (from Blade Grasp), increasing the effect damage of a target struck by Crashing Torrent, and activating Greater Insight's chance for a watched enemy to suffer talent failure.

So, if a archer fires an arrow at you, you can block it with Blade Grasp then nuke them with a ranged attack, not unlike what Sun Paladins can do with Block/Wave of Power

[kemott11]

Quite impressed, much better than the old versions.
But don't you think there are too many actives? Most classes have a good number of passives in the class trees and Stoic has none.

[daed4]

Actives on this thing are monstrous and insight is pretty awful as a resource, even more awful than early game hatred.

[Einander]

Game throws an error any time you mouse over Tirakaul's Maul with a Stoic--I think it has something to do with the Str->Dex requirements change, judging by the messages.

[stinkstink]

Thanks for the report, it should be fixed now.

[Hahmach]

Constantly throws this error and skips turn while i was standing in poison.
dont know is its interaction between addons, but i havent encountered it without this addon.
i was using version 2.0.0 so dont know if this is fixed already.
http://i.imgur.com/IeOPBYB.jpg

btw, addon is freakin' sweet

upd. if u stand on a poison ivy than another error happens, but this is not looped.
http://i.imgur.com/wAU9qM4.jpg

seems that there is some bad interaction with poisons from level objects.
last one uses 2.0.1 version.

upd. tried stepping on poison ivy only with this addon active - still getting error. so this is not addons interaction problem.

[stinkstink]

Just uploaded another fix, thanks.

[Hahmach]

that was fast, thanks.

[stinkstink]

-Minor background change to allow Commando addon talents to display effective values without overriding Stoic custom ones

[Einander]

Some thoughts after playing with the class a bunch:

- The class has a really weak start, and a lot of that is Insight. The talents are very powerful, but they have high costs relative to your starting meter. Block really, really helps, but it can only do so much (especially against anything that doesn't do physical damage). If there was an early way to keep more meter with some downside (replace Antler Toss with a talent that halves meter loss, but caps Concentrate charges at 1 stack?), then relatively difficult starts like Yeek or Undead would be a lot more viable (and you'd get ganked by particularly powerful Uniques less often).

- That said, once you do get going and get some Will, Concentrate is really, really cool. The fact that Blindsight can see through walls (unlike Heightened Senses) combined with your high mobility means that it's easy to start fights on your terms, letting you stack Concentrate a few times for things like Block or Deflection (or Demon Fang, if you're boring). All three of the level 8 Class sustains are amazing, too.

- Accelerating Gale should not be an active ability. The speed boost isn't all that high, and while it can stack up greatly over a longer fight, the diminishing returns on each turn and the limited application of the boost (if the enemy isn't melee or an archer, you need to spend another turn to use Whirlwind Deflection after using Accelerating Gale) mean that it's hard to justify spending the Class Points or the Focus, even if it's a zero-turn ability.

- Umbral Arts working off of Negative Energy is a little strange; between aggressive Zigurites, Silence, Mana Clash, and the loss of Anti-Magic and Fungus, taking it has a much higher opportunity cost than the other locked categories. (Anti-Magic does have its own opportunity cost--no shield runes, loss of Alchemist's Gloves!--but it's lesser.) All of the abilities are very powerful, but Lifethread Blade kind of contradicts itself--it's a healing ability that you need to use regularly to keep your Negative energy at a good level, but it has a relatively high cooldown. That's a problem when all of the abilities are relatively high-cost in Negative Energy... Especially since, unlike Insight, you can't charge it up just before jumping into a big fight. You can get a sort-of-similar effect with Hyperawareness (Concentrate before the fight to get to three stacks, hit something with Lifethread to max Negative, go nuts), but this means entering big fights with less Insight and that's questionable. As a result, the tree is just generally not worth it compared to the others.

- Infernal Arts also seems a bit weaker than the other two trees. Boreal Arts gives you four different AOEs (around you, in a line, everything adjacent to a line, enemies all around you) and increases your speed, damage and mobility. Celestial Arts gives you a zero-turn attack that decreases Stun resistance, two AOE daze attacks, and one AOE stun attack, plus passive damage reduction and even more countering. Infernal Arts does give you +move speed, does have a similar nuke to the Plague tree's (burn a group with Backdraft, use Shimmering Blade for big AOE), can remove enemy sustains, and it does reduce enemy damage, but it doesn't increase your options as much as the other trees do. Maybe if it got a shield that's powered off of enemy burns or something? That fits in with the enemy-strength-reduction theme, and it's something the class doesn't really have otherwise.

(That said, most of my testing was with Umbral Arts, so that paragraph is mostly theorycrafting.)

- Mindstar Mastery should not be locked, and it should be at 1.30 power. The problem with Mindstars is, you don't start with them, and by the time you acquire two good ones, you're probably already at level 8 and Draw Stance doesn't play nice with dual-wielding. As is, it's really, really hard to justify using Mindstars over Draw Stance, especially since you need Strength and Dexterity for four of your trees (they're all really good trees) and you have no allies for Leaves Tide or Nature's Equilibrium. There's no reason to cut off a weird niche build like that.

All in all, I really like this class! It's neat and different, and I enjoy the Batman-style play it encourages. (Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet!) I look forward to any continued development you give it.