Always Visible Traps

[Davion Fuxa]

Something that came to mind is that sometimes, the hazards one may see in their travels aren't always invisible. Traps of course aren't used a lot in Tales of Maj'Eyal outside of Vaults, but I was thinking it might make sense to have something like the Slippery or Stunning Stones or Poisonous Bushes that sometimes appear outside of the Forest Vaults with the high level Honey Trees and Grizzly Bear could be something that could be something interesting that could be included - but unlike other traps you would always see it.

The premise for it is that these sort of 'visible traps' wouldn't be a sort of 'gotcha' trap, but more of a detriment which could make combat difficult or block off routes that your character might want to transverse. They could be fairly plentiful too so that they are a real hazard that you may have to constantly contend with.

[Radon26]

while normally it doesn't make sense for a TRAP to be just plainly visible to everyone, i have to agree with the bushes... they kind of stand out... like... literally. they grow out of the ground, and they are ALWAYS there.

[HousePet]

But would every character be able to identify those nasty stones or bushes as being a hazard?

[Davion Fuxa]

I think adventurers should have some basic 'basic' knowledge of their environment and it isn't like these features are ones that are deliberately hidden and hard to see like a trap. Even then, if you step into a poisonous bush you should be able to go 'oh, that's dangerous, I'll remember not to step into bushes like that in the future'.

[Atarlost]

How is this different from terrain effects? There is lava that hurts you if you step on it in some vaults and one vault has water that poisons you step in it.

[Radon26]

well, when it comes to lava, its rather hot when you just get near it.
it something you recognize the first time you see it.

plants, are many, and to recognize them you would have to check yourself at least once.

thats how different it is.

also, lava and water are part of the terrain.

[Davion Fuxa]

I don't see how 'part of the terrain' matters. If it does then the Slippery Rocks or Poisonous Plants can simply be incorporated as Terrain types to watch out for.

Example, you could have several tiles of slippery rocks which have a chance to Daze you 1 or 2 turns when walking over them. You could also have 'Dense Brush' which takes additional tiles to move through.

Another thought is well is that the Survival skills could incorporate a little bit of 'Hazardous Tile' identification as well, where you can determine if a Tile is dangerous without walking into it simply with identifying it through character knowledge.

[HousePet]

That sounds interesting.

[twas Brillig]

Personally, even if they behaved like regular traps with regards to discovery, I'd be happy to see more terrain features that effected the player and monsters equally. I love symmetry in games like ToME, and giving the player more options could be really cool. I'm not sure whether enemies would need to be given an overhaul to take advantage of those effects (since otherwise it's a buff to the player, but one that rewards tactical thinking), but I sort of imagine that overhaul would be pretty gnarly.

[Radon26]

what i think of traps in general
After you clear your first few dungeons, the trap become nothing more than annoyance.
Teleport trap especially, with a chance to teleport into an actually dangerous situation.
Summoning traps becoming one time meal, usually possible to clear with a single death dance/nova/whirlwind etc/.
Acid splash is just an area pathing denial, which after being activated once, seem to activate itself randomly whenever you are in range.
Boulder trap's delay makes it irrelevant.
fire and beam runes are better to be avoided, but even that is not too difficult to do.

so, how do you expect the natural traps to be usable against the enemies? how will they be relevant and have an effect?
also, those traps like poison bush or slippery stones, they don't even appear outside of the vaults.

[Davion Fuxa]

Generally in this game, I agree that traps can sometimes be an annoyance. But if they can make you think differently about your tactical situation then them being annoying is fine.

As for traps I'm referring to like the Stunning Stones or the Poisonous Plants, they really aren't making you think differently as they are. You just encounter them randomly and push on without a second thought. If you were to have passages block off though by them, and you can see them in advance, then it might trigger some decision making in regards to how to use them against enemies or whether something undesirable happen might happen if you walk over them.

For example there is a vault that has a lake of poisonous water with lots of mold. That specific vault offers different tactical considerations then just killing everything inside that moves and collecting the loot because the poisonous water can really hurt.