Necromancy+ v2.2 (Although now mostly Spiritmancer)

[malboro_urchin]

The Spiritmancer's wisps seem very weak to me, at least early on. Their damage doesn't appear to scale too well, though admittedly I'm not sure what benefit they gain from talent levels outside of on-death explosion damage. Also, they die in one hit to more or less anything that isn't a worm mass.

Is there something I'm missing, or doing wrong?

[HousePet]

I did just nerf their base stats by 15.

If you want to use them for more than just explosions, have a look at some of the talents in the Life Giver category.

[malboro_urchin]

I did invest into some of those, and I found that doubling the life of a 20hp wisp is rather useless. That particular ability does have awesome synergy with Karmic Wave though! Also, this was before I realized their best use is deathsplosions (which was something I've always wanted to do with the Necro, and now I can do it better with Spiritmancer! Hooray!).

Also, the explosions themselves don't seem to do all that much damage or scale very strongly with talent investment, especially given the mana cost and cooldown of the wisps. I found myself relying more and more on nukes to kill things before they killed me, and at that point, my mana was better spent on more nukes instead of the mana-intensive wisps. I really want wisps to be good because the idea is awesome, but preferably before Blighted Summoning so that they can help me get there in the first place

[HousePet]

Hrm.
The explosion damage scales the same as everything else, but it doesn't do a huge amount of damage individually.
They should have more life as well, but there is a bug where npcs don't get extra life from Con.
The Clay Golem should help keep them alive.
I might need to make some refinements to Wisps bombing power though.

[malboro_urchin]

Thanks, I appreciate your taking a look into it!

One last question for now: does the Clay Golem's aura affect damage the same way Bone Shield negates damage (ie flurry/multiple damage types)?

[HousePet]

It should subtract from each damage type.

[Radon26]

sooo i was just starting a writh (the undead addon race) enchanter, when this popped up.


error = "Lua Error: /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:271: /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:248: /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:148: /data-necromancy+/talents/spells/alter-spells.lua:87: attempt to index global 'Object' (a nil value)\
stack traceback:\
\9/data-necromancy+/talents/spells/alter-spells.lua:87: in function 'createDark'\
\9/data/talents/spells/grave.lua:309: in function </data/talents/spells/grave.lua:269>\
\9[C]: in function 'xpcall'\
\9/engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:145: in function </engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:138>\
At [C]:-1 \
At [C]:-1 error\
At /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:271 useTalent\
At /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:329 forceUseTalent\
At /mod/class/Actor.lua:5259 forceUseTalent\
At /data/general/traps/complex.lua:263 triggered\
At /engine/Trap.lua:139 trigger\
At /mod/class/Trap.lua:161 trigger\
At /engine/Trap.lua:153 check\
At [string \"return function(self, x, y, what, ...) local ...\"]:1 checkAllEntities\
At /engine/Actor.lua:219 move\
At /mod/class/Actor.lua:1260 move\
At /mod/class/Player.lua:296 move\
At /engine/interface/PlayerRun.lua:137 runStep\
At /mod/class/Player.lua:377 act\
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:126 tickLevel\
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:62 tick\
At /engine/GameTurnBased.lua:46 tick\
At /mod/class/Game.lua:1255 "
seen = true
reported = false

this mod is mentioned above so i blame it.
both times happened when i stood on an unseen trap. that vault always have traps in the 2 places.

PS
before pressing submit, it made a test to be sure.
i walked over the trap spot few more times, and an error message popped up every single time.
also, i am playing 1.3b9.

[HousePet]

I'm pretty sure I've already fixed this.

[Bahndriin]

Hey HousePet, I wanted to congradulate you on this magnificent work -- I think this needs to be beautified a little bit and merged in the main game.

However, I am experiencing this lately when trying to Assemble a Bone Giant: https://imgur.com/Gn6fFBm (Screenshot taken in a window due to some weird Linux-related things I cannot quite put my finger on.

[HousePet]

Hrm. I'll check it when I get home.
Its probably just an error from me changing how the addon loads data.

[HousePet]

Bone Giants were missing from the minions table entirely.

[Bahndriin]

Thanks, I can see that you have updated it already.

Nice job merging Curse of the Meek and the other ability in the Shades first rank ability, it makes them all the more useful. What about the colours of the icons that have been moved between categories, can those be changed?

One little note though, -- I still don't see myself using Undead Explosion except for creating Bone Shields from Giants, as the damage is pretty insignificant and the friendly fire is on. What do you think can be done about it, maybe it can heal the friendly undead if the base damage type is blight?

Also, is it okay that it bugs me that there are now more trees to pick from? It seems to me that making meaningful choices have become harder.

[HousePet]

Well I guess I could attempt to recolour the icons.

I'll look at the damage and friendly fireness of Undead Explosion.

I exist to make your life difficult with too many choices.

[Micbran]

You can't really complain about a lot of choices since adventurer is a class to pick from. Even if you have a set build... It can still be a little overwhelming.

[Bahndriin]

Thanks HousePet, that would be very nice. I appreciate your valiant efforts.

I do have a nagging feeling that the Charnel tree doesn't bring many more meaningful choices into the game, only making levelling up choices more agonizing for a Necromancer. How appropriate. Maybe it is just my lacking the idea how to level up properly though, since I was over-investing in Minions when I was playing before, -- I keep wanting for them to be something more than meatshields, but this doesn't happen.

Maybe the key to making everyone happy would be to have more customization options for Necromancy+? For example, I adore the changes you made to the vanilla talents (combining Undead Explosion with Sacrifice!, Undeath Link, Shadow Tunnel, Will o' the Wisp, Assemble and Minion Mastery are all awesome), but I find re-arrangements of the talents in tiers and trees odd and against what I am used to... (Vampiric Gift being in Charnel is the most notable culprit.) Maybe the key to making everyone happy can be a more detailed option about how the addon works, with an additional option for re-arrangement? Assuming you want to make everyone happy.

Oh, and is there a reason why Essence of the Dead isn't an instant cast? Also, Bone Giants can get "Bleeding" as a status effect for some reason.

Another good idea that I have seen elsewhere is that Blurred Mortality's bonus does not scale with level making the effect of having invested in it irrelevant as you level up, but this applies pretty much to all fixed bonus something-power talents. I think it can do with an increase to the effectiveness once you attain Lich-form and another constitution-based increase for everyone. It is pretty awful that anyone considering doing a run on higher difficulties will never pick up Lich-form since it bars Heroism and Movement infusions, while offering very little in return.

Just some thoughts. I hope this is enough feedback to entice you to coding.

P.S. Undead Exploding Will o' the Wisps also gives you a Lua error, please take a look here: https://imgur.com/cBDt9AS

(Maybe Undead Explosion could work better if there would be a spellpower-based check for it to explode hostile undead, too? It is pretty awful how good Summoner's Detonate ability is by comparison, and they don't even get to use souls to fuel their summons.)