Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)

[Thasero]

Actually, the math works out the same. 33% deflection means you take 2/3rds damage, which is like having 3/2nds more hitpoints, which is a 50% bonus. The difference is that Shielding is a sustain that only applies to damage shields, but Webs of Fate is a temporary buff but also protects you when you're not shielded.

[donkatsu]

Still debating on Time Shield + Webs of Fate but Thasero mentioned in chat that just about everything makes shields better. i.e. resists. So I don't know.

*edit* Also Shielding gives +52% on Time Shield. Doesn't Time Shield + 5/5 Shielding still blow Time Shield + Webs of Fate out of the water?

Defensive things that don't make shields better:
-Other shields
-Healing and regeneration
-Extra max life and die_at
-Effects that explicitly only take place when you take hp damage, such as Necromancer Sacrifice. Put this effect on a permanent sustain to dodge Thasero's complaint about micromanagement.

And yeah, overall Paradox Mages are not overpowered compared to Archmages, I just mean that Stasis is overpowered compared to their other unlockable trees, due to Time Shield.

Haven't played a new high level Gravity PM yet, but the old one felt just a tad strong. The only thing reining it in was the fact that all of the good effects were temporal, and physical only had a small number of spells to play with. Now, the damage conversion on Gravity Locus is a massive buff in their favor that probably warrants putting nerfs on the tree overall.

[raledon]

assuming both are maxed, I think shielding against weave of fate would be something about 55% vs 35%? we'll look at 50% vs 33% for easier number crunching
if you got 500 shield off, and 33% resist all:
archmage gets 500*1.5*3/2=1125 effective shielding
chrono gets 500*3=1500 effective shielding.
If both have effective resistance, they are the same.
This is simply because there is no diminishing returns on resistance.
If I'm mistaken and weave is a damage reduction instead of resistance they are equally strong.
Regardless, chrono got three problems with that system-
1) Weave lasts 5 turns, instead of the full duration
2) The heal is based on a 500 shield, instead of a 750 one
3) If it's resist all, if it reaches the cap, weave loses power

I don't see a nerf is needed just due to a synergy between these two abilities, unless there is another issue at hand

[raledon]

just wondering if this change was intended: precognition lasts 2 turns on level one, increasing by 3 per level? talents usually start strong and lose power per point invested.

[edge2054]

just wondering if this change was intended: precognition lasts 2 turns on level one, increasing by 3 per level? talents usually start strong and lose power per point invested.

It's intended. Was to much of a one point wonder.

[edge2054]

Defensive things that don't make shields better:
-Other shields
-Healing and regeneration
-Extra max life and die_at
-Effects that explicitly only take place when you take hp damage, such as Necromancer Sacrifice. Put this effect on a permanent sustain to dodge Thasero's complaint about micromanagement.

And yeah, overall Paradox Mages are not overpowered compared to Archmages, I just mean that Stasis is overpowered compared to their other unlockable trees, due to Time Shield.

The last one was my first instinct but I like that Webs of Fate doubles spin and I don't want that on a sustain. Extra max life and regeneration would be interesting and pair well with Reality Smearing. I'll play around with it.

[themuffinthief]

What about having Chronomancy as the escort reward, but don't give Contingency as the talent reward? You'd need to unlock the category and spend multiple points to get it. I like having the first talent available as a Track substitute for non-antimagic characters.

This. SO MUCH THIS. Antimagic get track (a mandatory skill on insane+) from an escort. This was the SINGLE biggest thing I was looking forward to in 1.3 was getting a magical version of track from escorts. Don't take this away, please. I'll agree contingency might be op. Hell, remove the skill entirely, all I want is a magical track.

[edge2054]

There's nothing really to pair it with. Foresight and Precog?

I also nerfed the hell out of Precogs base duration. I think you'd have 1 turn at tl 0.8.

[Effigy]

Precognition and Foresight seems fine to me.

[raledon]

ok soo.. I'm not entirely sure if this is buggy or working as intended.
Decided to try to raise my paradox to maximum and cast a spell.
As a result, pretty much all hell broke lose (i forgot to shut down some on-enemy sight autouse), and apparantly I summoned a clone.
The clone, having maximum paradox, had a turn before me... and cast a spell.
The spell caused another anomaly... and a chain reaction issued, where I moved around countless realities, and each time more bad stuff appeared without me having a turn.

[themuffinthief]

There's nothing really to pair it with. Foresight and Precog?

I also nerfed the hell out of Precogs base duration. I think you'd have 1 turn at tl 0.8.

I don't care about duration, radius is all that matters. 1 turn to identify threats on the level as you zone in is fine. It's use is to make sure you don't walk around a corner into hell.

[themuffinthief]

Not sure if it's a bug, but is webs of fate only supposed to displace at melee range? Seems pretty weak if so.

Also, so far it feels like paradox mage is a TON tankier than temporal warden, which feels wrong.

PM: Reality Smearing (up to 33% all damage reduced), Energy Decomposition (30% all damage reduced, capped at a value high enough it usually isn't reached), Matter Weaving (Stun res, can't be hit for more than 60% life), Contingency (varies)

TW: Guardian Unity (Not sure how to really rank this. It's amazing, but with a 10 turn cd it's not very consistent), Vigilance (takes a turn, and only reduces damage from other targets)

Both: Time shield, Contingency (although TW requires a precious cat point), Webs of Fate (better for TW as it's melee only range)

Am I missing something? Why is the range 10 class tankier than the sword/bow class?

[ghostbuster]

It is partly true for resistances, but in terms of resilience to effects, vigilance is outstanding for TW. With it and Dim shift (and the many teleporting spells), you do not really need a wild infusion (at least in normal). (In which case, you can have an extra regen!)

[themuffinthief]

It is partly true for resistances, but in terms of resilience to effects, vigilance is outstanding for TW. With it and Dim shift (and the many teleporting spells), you do not really need a wild infusion (at least in normal). (In which case, you can have an extra regen!)

Dim shift is very nice for removing effects (although accessible to both PM and TW), but not enough on its own on insane. Vigilance isn't reliable at anything other than dots like poison that you wouldn't spend a wild on anyway. Anything you want to spend a wild on (stun, confusion, sleep, sometimes freeze/daze) needs to be removed instantly, not when vigilance gets around to it.

[edge2054]

Webs of Fate was bugged yes.

Energy Decomposition requires a category point and apparently the description needs to be clarified. It works like an Antimagic shield with 30% hardiness. So if you take 100 damage and Energy Decomp can reduce 100 damage at the cap, you take 70 and reduce the damage by 30.

Wardens also get dogs. Don't know how they fair on Insane but they're apparently fine on nightmare. They also get Fold Warp. And other stuff.

I feel like I'm comparing apples to oranges. I don't think either class is exactly hurting when it comes to survivability and that both may need to be nerfed at some point to make sure rare chronomancers don't wreck players. Of the two, I'm more concerned about TWs.