Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)

[edge2054]

Maybe I should start them in a robe?

Really that's what I've been using on my TWs. Personally I want strength requirements removed from leather and probably should pester Darkgod about it again. I like playing halfling rogues and shadow blades and I run into the same issue with putting points into strength. I think halflings especially see this as you end up with 1 stat point starting off because some go into strength to equip your leather armor

As to Weapon Manifold. Basically each of the three passives has a percentage chance to fire. When you hit all of these get checked, even if the talent is on cooldown. If the check 'procs' the code checks to see if the talent is on cooldown or not. If it's on cooldown, it helps your other two folds cooldown a bit. If it's off cooldown, it instead fires an effect.

I'd love some suggestions on making the talent clearer. But the intent is, as was mentioned up thread, to benefit from multiple hits in one turn without actually having multiple explosions each turn.

[twas Brillig]

Yeah, starting in a robe would definitely help with feeling like you're playing the class "wrong". It puts them in sort of an interesting position, of course. I wonder at how much damage mitigation they have without armor. Guardian Unity is good damage reduction, as long as you take a moderate hit directly to your hitpoints. Banish and all the rest help keep them out of scrums. Anything that boosts speed lets you get out of bad situations. Stasis has Time Shield, stun, and removal. Fateweaver can reduce between 1 and 3 attacks per turn by a percentage. Invigorate has a weak/moderate heal (though I feel like you'll mostly be saving it for the cooldown reduction). I guess they'll have problems with instant travel spells? Or maybe ranged flurry effects? Anything that does a lot of small hits will flood Fateweaver and bypass Unity.

I have no idea where you'd fit it in, but giving them some sort of parrying effect would be interestingly swashbucklery.

It's been a while since I've played a robey class. I'll try and keep an eye on the sorts of egos and artifacts that seem useful, and whether there are an obvious gaps that might help with this.

As to Weapon Manifold. Basically each of the three passives has a percentage chance to fire. When you hit all of these get checked, even if the talent is on cooldown. If the check 'procs' the code checks to see if the talent is on cooldown or not. If it's on cooldown, it helps your other two folds cooldown a bit. If it's off cooldown, it instead fires an effect.

I'd love some suggestions on making the talent clearer. But the intent is, as was mentioned up thread, to benefit from multiple hits in one turn without actually having multiple explosions each turn.

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Maybe something like "If an effect would be triggered" rather than "is"? That...might help. By the way, is it 14% for each one independently? Or is it 14%, and then a 1/3 chance of each? More drastically: "Each Fold has an 8 turn cooldown. If a Fold is triggered while on cooldown, it will reduce the cooldown of the other two Folds by one turn. Otherwise, it has the listed effect: "

Oh, also, typo: Folds is inconsistently capitalized.

It's an interesting mechanic, anyway. Have you done any math to work out the effective proc rate? One issue with the various Guardian talents is they're flurry-like, but not actual flurries: Wardens get a lot of actions per turn, but any clones won't actually count towards their cooldown reduction. Actually, Wardens don't have any ability to rapid fire arrows, do they? I guess Arrow Echoes lets you get additional shots in, assuming it's not a clone shooting them.

[IejirIsk]

One thing I noticed. With the arrows that can pass through friendlies (i dont know if basic 'shoot' can), the targeting still shows red through them.

edit: and maybe, while I certainly am not pro... just got nommed to death. but, perhaps that was just cause i didnt move out of the way.

edit2: warp mine toward and warp mine away apparently both activate cooldown of warp mine away, according to text

edit3: Especially considering one of the first bosses is perma stealthed, precognition gives no anti-stealth/invis ability?

edit4: TW Vigilance has same icon as Thread Walk? also... vigilance 4th ability, level 4 and req 3 other talents?

edit5: Do the other me's reduce my CD on manyfolding? <-- saw an answer

edit6: Damage on shot: 70% dex, 0% mag, 50% cun. Not sure how to phrase, but a notice saying the folding did x damage in the log would be beneficial too

[edge2054]

Thanks for the typos guys.

No idea how to fix shots showing 0% magic. Don't get why it's doing that.

I'll have to get together with someone that knows a bit more about targeting on the targeting issue.

*edit* I'm not seeing the targeting bug actually. All blue as I shoot arrows through my dogs.

[IejirIsk]

wasnt shooting through dogs but escort I think it was.

edit for thought: without mag->str on armour, what's the survivability especially late game? PM seems much more survivable with all the damage reducers.

edit2: Warden's Focus references a twin threads... ?

edit3: also shooting through clones seems to have same targetting issue.

[edge2054]

edit for thought: without mag->str on armour, what's the survivability especially late game? PM seems much more survivable with all the damage reducers.

I just finished up Fateweaving and gave them that instead of Chronomancy which should help a bit. Also Guardian Unity and Vigilance both reduce damage and the class has access to Time Shield. I think they'll be alright.

If people want to go the heavy armor warden route there's nothing really stopping them. But I'm not going to encourage it.

wasnt shooting through dogs but escort I think it was.

edit3: also shooting through clones seems to have same targetting issue.

I'll be on the look out for it. About to start a new test character.

edit2: Warden's Focus references a twin threads... ?

Fixed thanks

[IejirIsk]

In Ruins of Kor'Pul (3) used singularity arrow. hit 300 paradox, skelly did stunning blow, and missed. mouse and skeleton were drawn in, no damage. error popup
error reads:

Lua Error: /data/damage_types.lua:228: attempt to perform arithmetic on a nil value
At [C]:-1__add
At /data/damage_types.lua:228 projector
At /data/damage_types.lua:2678 projector
At /data/talents/chronomancy/bow-threading.lua:220 damtype
At /engine/interface/ActorProject.lua:217 project
At /data/talents/chronomancy/bow-threading.lua:217
At /engine/Game.lua:289 onTickEndExecute
At /engine/Game.lua:280 tick
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:58 tick
At /engine/GameTurnBased.lua:46 tick
At /mod/class/Game.lua:1247

--
also... too many talent choices... and jaw dropped when i saw new changes you made

edit: then more errors as i tried something else, then apparently nested arrows... think this char is dead now... ah well... time for sleep anyway... ^_^

[twas Brillig]

"transfered" should be "transferred" in Braided Blade.

It might be nice if you could use Thread Walk at range with your melee weapons out, but eh. Not a big deal.

I'm having a thing where 300 effective paradox has a 1% paradox chance. I think it's a rounding error somewhere, since I noticed the failure drop to 0 while resting before paradox actually went down.

I'm not having any problems shooting through escorts on the latest commit using either regular shoot or Threaded Arrow, but Arrow Stitching does show red when fired past an escort.

One thing I've noticed is even at low levels you see egos that support mundane archers, via cooldown reduction on Steady Shot and the like, but there aren't any (or at least, any low-level) egos that help TW. For that matter, in spite of TW's many really awesome abilities, I'm jealous of Piercing Arrow. TW lacks a traditional beam, and it seems like if you can warp spacetime shooting everyone really should be something you can do.

[edge2054]

Sorry about the death. I forgot to remove something when I changed Vigilance

[edge2054]

"transfered" should be "transferred" in Braided Blade.

Thanks.

I'm having a thing where 300 effective paradox has a 1% paradox chance. I think it's a rounding error somewhere, since I noticed the failure drop to 0 while resting before paradox actually went down.

I'll keep an eye out for it on my playtest and see if I can track it down.

I'm not having any problems shooting through escorts on the latest commit using either regular shoot or Threaded Arrow, but Arrow Stitching does show red when fired past an escort.

That makes more sense. Arrow Stitching uses some custom targeting, it probably still thinks it hits friendlies. I'll give it and the rest of that tree a quick look.

One thing I've noticed is even at low levels you see egos that support mundane archers, via cooldown reduction on Steady Shot and the like, but there aren't any (or at least, any low-level) egos that help TW.

Egos and NPCs are next on my to-do list. Wanted to make sure I wasn't rewriting or replacing anymore talents before I started on them. If you have any suggestions for stuff you'd like to see feel free to post them

For that matter, in spite of TW's many really awesome abilities, I'm jealous of Piercing Arrow. TW lacks a traditional beam, and it seems like if you can warp spacetime shooting everyone really should be something you can do.

Thread The Needle is a piercing arrow when used with your bow. Braided Blade also is a beam. I realize neither of these is in the Bow-Threading tree but I didn't want a lot of overlap when it came to AoEs. Something I am considering though is resetting the cooldowns on clones when they spawn, so they have a better chance to pop Folds.

[twas Brillig]

Thanks for the timely vigilance fix! I was having a really weird problem after leveling that, where nothing, not even my bumps, was doing damage to anything. That cleared it right up.

One thing I've noticed is even at low levels you see egos that support mundane archers, via cooldown reduction on Steady Shot and the like, but there aren't any (or at least, any low-level) egos that help TW.

Egos and NPCs are next on my to-do list. Wanted to make sure I wasn't rewriting or replacing anymore talents before I started on them. If you have any suggestions for stuff you'd like to see feel free to post them

I'll let you know! One theme of the chronomancers I like is the recursion and clones and such. A chance to fire more shots or attack adjacent enemies, or spawning a clone to do the same, might be interesting. Aside from that, are there a lot of paradox-managing egos? That'd be an obvious one.

Thread The Needle is a piercing arrow when used with your bow. Braided Blade also is a beam. I realize neither of these is in the Bow-Threading tree but I didn't want a lot of overlap when it came to AoEs.

I've been misreading Braided Blade. I was reading the attack and the beam as being totally separate, with the beam just braiding people. That's a lot better than I realized. That's interesting, actually. It sort of makes dual wielding the more AoE-y one.

Something I am considering though is resetting the cooldowns on clones when they spawn, so they have a better chance to pop Folds.

That could do it. Otherwise the clones are really variable in how good they are, based purely on how recently you've popped a Fold.

edit: Temporal Clones can use Warp Mine Towards, which may be rude.

[edge2054]

Made a special case for Folds and reset the cooldowns for clones. I'm not going to reset all talent cooldowns just yet though as Temporal Fugue (PM clone spell) is already really strong.

[twas Brillig]

Is there an easy way to tag a talent as, like, reset_on_clone? That'd save you some hassle later on.

Also: Dimensional Stepping an escort unto their portal (via the L5 swap) confuses them a little. They won't use the portal unless you swap places with them/let them step onto it themselves. I believe Dimension Door lets you directly teleport escorts onto the portal without issue.

edit: Just got a freeze while using Warden's Focus, Vigilance, and Blink Blade against a rare in the Bearscape with an enemy visible. I'm going to wait and see if it fixes itself, then post the log.

edit: Log doesn't have anything special. Seems like it cut out partway through because, well, freeze. There is a weird line in there about "chance to hit -0", which I guess might be related to my also being simultaneously frozen?

[LOG] Robert Cop casts Blink Blade.
[LOG] You teleport #FFD700##UID0#Skullcleaver (20-28 power, 4 apr)#LAST# and #FFD700##UID0#Spellblaze Shard (20-26 power, 10 apr)#LAST# into your hands.
[ATTACK] attacking with Skullcleaver
[ATTACK] to Arowen the grizzly bear :: 48.726622374968 10.117203699142 50.072806161074 26.30135129452 :: 1.1179506925726
checkHit 52.71211188343 26.30135129452
=> chance to hit 100
[ATTACK] raw dam 48.726622374968 versus 50.072806161074 0.81030927835052 with APR 10.117203699142
[ATTACK] after armor 9.2429881618495
[ATTACK] after range 9
[PHYS CRIT %] axe accuracy bonus 52.71211188343 26.30135129452 = 5.2821521177818
[PHYS CRIT %] 13.799045642178
[ATTACK] after crit 9
[ATTACK] after mult 10.061556233153
checkHit 26.6 10.037633677168
=> chance to hit 92
[LOG] Robert Cop spins fate.
[LOG] Robert Cop weaves fate.
checkHit 23.75 12.4
=> chance to hit 79
[LOG] Robert Cop is encased in ice!
[ATTACK] attacking with Spellblaze Shard
[ATTACK] to Arowen the grizzly bear :: 39.351373280383 16.300089727156 50.072806161074 26.30135129452 :: 0.5589753462863
checkHit 54.21211188343 26.30135129452
=> chance to hit 100
[ATTACJ] dagger accuracy bonus 54.21211188343 26.30135129452 = 1.1395538029445 previous 16.300089727156
[ATTACK] raw dam 39.351373280383 versus 50.072806161074 0.81030927835052 with APR 18.574829236918
[ATTACK] after armor 7.8533963562272
[ATTACK] after range 10
[PHYS CRIT %] 8.5168935243958
[ATTACK] after crit 10
[ATTACK] after mult 5.589753462863
[LOG] Arowen the grizzly bear is on fire!
checkHit 28.1 10.037633677168
=> chance to hit 95
checkHit 23.75 43.767307055781
=> chance to hit -0

[edge2054]

Did you get frozen mid-attack? Like from a shield with ice project on it or something similar?

[twas Brillig]

Did you get frozen mid-attack? Like from a shield with ice project on it or something similar?

That might be what happened. It's hard to get causal information from the combat log--you can see me get frozen, and then dealing damage, in the log. It may have been a bulwark bear, but I may be thinking of a previous rare. I don't see any damage going to block, though. When I run into it again, I'll try to check.

edit: What are your thoughts on making Warden's focus instant cast? Is it meant to be more of a "I'm making a note to target this guy" or "Manipulating spacetime to make sure I hit this guy"? Given so many of TW's other convenience/set-up abilities are instant, it might make sense. Obviously a buff, though, especially since it's a way to pop another stack of celerity.

edit: I don't have any lifesteal on my ranged set, but I do on my melee set. I keep stealing life with my bow and I'm not sure how.

edit: Yep, wintry bulwark. Looks like Blink Blade freaks out when you're frozen during/after the flurry.