Mindstars

[grayswandir]

Dual Techniques is alright for mindstars - the only problem is that the tree requires dexterity, which has no bearing on mindstar ability.
All the status effects use accuracy to apply, so for mindstars that means high cunning, not dexterity.

Dual Weapons:
Dual Weapon Training straight out doesn't apply to mindstars. (Unless you can boost it over 100%, and that's obviously not worth the investment.)
Dual Weapon Defense doesn't get the talent level 5+ bonus to mindstars.
Precision gives armour piercing, but mindstars already have crazy high armour piercing and it again scales with dexterity.
Momentum is of course still useful.

The whole lethality tree has very little to do with dual-wielding, aside with the cunning for daggers thing.
The +30% critmod on Lethality is good for even, say, mages.
Deadly Strikes is good for any melee character.
Willful combat is especially good for mindstar users, though I'm not sure how strong it is overall.
Snap is snap.

[Atarlost]

The wiki said Deadly Strikes is AP unless I misread, which mindstars don't need. I suppose you could technically use it for two handed or sword and board, but it's not on any class that has tree support for anything but dual wielding.

[Red]

Well, since AP is an additive value and not a percentile, there actually are times when you might need a truly ridiculous amount of AP. If you look over cctobias's character report on his Meteor Madness Arcane Brawler Adventurer, Argoniel had a huge armor score, making most everything except his Earthen Missile procs useless. Deadly Strikes, while certainly unable to fit in his build, might've helped punch through that.

With that in mind, you're not likely to find that in anything short of Insane. It was just bad luck that gave Argoniel such a massive armor score-Atamathon, for instance, had a lot less simply because it didn't have the classes Argoniel had. It's a one-in-a-million instance where you'll actually need extra AP over mindstars' usual amount, but because AP only works point for point, it can happen.

[jaumito]

Well, since AP is an additive value and not a percentile, there actually are times when you might need a truly ridiculous amount of AP. If you look over cctobias's character report on his Meteor Madness Arcane Brawler Adventurer, Argoniel had a huge armor score, making most everything except his Earthen Missile procs useless. Deadly Strikes, while certainly unable to fit in his build, might've helped punch through that.

Irrelevant, because Madness. It's not supposed to be balanced. It's not even supposed to be doable at all.

[Red]

Do bosses get extra classes on Insane or other lower dificulties? Or could a rare get a certain class combination (say, Stone Archmage, Stone Warden, and Bulwark) that would give them ridiculous armor?

It's most likely to happen on Madness, but it's a possibility on easier dificulties. That said, even on Madness it's not overly likely (maybe a few times a playthrough, and unless it happens on a boss or someone you could just run past them) but it can at least turn Deadly Strikes from "absolutely useless to mindstars" to "not quite absolutely useless".

[grayswandir]

The wiki said Deadly Strikes is AP unless I misread, which mindstars don't need. I suppose you could technically use it for two handed or sword and board, but it's not on any class that has tree support for anything but dual wielding.

I was more talking about the instant weapon attack.

[Atarlost]

Do bosses get extra classes on Insane or other lower dificulties? Or could a rare get a certain class combination (say, Stone Archmage, Stone Warden, and Bulwark) that would give them ridiculous armor?

It's most likely to happen on Madness, but it's a possibility on easier dificulties. That said, even on Madness it's not overly likely (maybe a few times a playthrough, and unless it happens on a boss or someone you could just run past them) but it can at least turn Deadly Strikes from "absolutely useless to mindstars" to "not quite absolutely useless".

The devs don't even pretend the game is balanced at insane or madness. That's why nothing has been done about the latter only being playable with drowning exploits. And from what I remember of skimming the archives when I rejoined after the T3 collapse madness was implemented only because people were managing to beat insane without exploits.

[Laerte]

Bump.

I was reading this and agree that most classes (like wyrmic and cursed) that could use psiblades as weapon don't have a skill tree to use them. The damage being either nature or mind doesn't synergise well with most melee gear and cun as stat modifier isn't great for str based classes.

So I would like to propose (but someone else would have to code ) a tree that solves these problems. It's a stamina based, dual wielding combat tree for mindstars/psilades (may be not just for them) and the first skill can also be used while not dual wielding.

Dual Weapon Prowess (temporary name)

Nature Focus -- can be used while not dual wielding
Sustain
Adds nature (and manaburn, I hate mages) damage on hit (mindpower based) -- just to give something you can spend class points.
Also passively lets you use str instead of cun for mindstars for damage multiplier and turns all mindstars damage into physical

Stake -- requires dual
Attacks the opponent for 130~180 damage
Pins (and silences, I really hate mages) the target for 2~4 turns
7 turns cooldown

Flow of the Battle -- requires dual
Passive
Every time you hit an enemy you gain 10%, up to 20~45% disarm, pin, knockback and stun resistence for 2~4 turns
Physical critical hits lower the cooldown of 1~2 random infusions by 1

Crush -- requires dual
Range 3
Jumps towards the opponent and attacks twice for 90~130 damage each time
Stuns the target for 3 ~ 6 turns
10 turns cooldown

[Ezeric]

Wow, never expected to see this many replies and thought given to my post. I just read everything and saw many good ideas, decoupling mindstars from equilibrium/cunning/willpower depending on the situation/addon for instance. Laerte even had a basic idea for a skill tree clearly designed to kill mages. Oh, unlocking the true power of the mindstar since it is a "semi-living moss-rock-plant-somethings" is a good way to think of things. Even just making it possible to use mindstars with shields, variety and a useful melee mindstar build was the point. Now, figuring out how to make it happen. Seriously, you guys are great