Vacant archetypal real-estate

[Lyoncet]

First of all, let me say that I really like ToME 4's not-entirely-by-the-tropes classes. Things like Wyrmics and Oozemancers and Paradox Mages and Solipsists and even the more mundane but really nifty classes like Skirmisher are really refreshing. But I've been thinking lately…

Having unlocked almost every class (and reading up on those I haven't nabbed yet), I'm thinking about what standard fantasy archetypes we don't really have in the game yet. They're not things ToME needs to have by any stretch, but they could make for some nice additions (alongside other less standard classes, like the upcoming Possessor). I just think it would be a good exercise to toss around absent standbys, if for no other reason than to have a little fun. Also, I recognize that these might be good mod classes or may already exist as mods – but I think it's worth batting around anyways.

I'm also not going to get into what skills would look like, since that's well beyond what I feel competent in. But feel free to comment along those lines!

1) Generalist fighter type
I realize that "generalist" is about the least sexy designation ever, but what I'm getting at is the sword + bow fighter orientation. Sure, we have Temporal Wardens who do the melee + bow thing already, but since they're chronomancers I'd put them in their own category. You'd probably be using a lot of existing categories – something of a blend between Bulwark and Archer, but you'd probably want to have some Skirmisher-style talents too that focus on blending the two styles so as not to end up with a crappy Bulwark who's also a crappy Archer.

2) Duelist
This one's probably pretty much covered by the Marauder, except for one thing – no class, Marauder included, does the single-one-handed-weapon thing. There was a recent post about making that a viable choice by giving a chance at an unarmed attack a la Flexible Combat when fighting with the offhand empty, but I can see that being a reasonable orientation focus for an entire class since it's something that literally no one else has any reason to do in ToME 4. However, it may be better just to give the Marauder a new skill tree, instead of making a new class that would probably have an awful lot of overlap.

3) Druid
Despite being mentioned in the Wilder metaclass description, there isn't really anything very standard Druid-ish in the game. Summoners encapsulate one aspect, but their focus on summoning is so great that it works to the exclusion of the other elements. Given the influence of the antimagic folks, it seems like Druidism would be a natural (har har) source of power. It's hard to say if the Ziguranth would see it as too close to dirty sorcery, although that may not be a bad tension to revel in a bit.

For this, I'm thinking your D&D root-ensnaring, possibly shape-shifting, animal-befriending, tree-hugging (and animating) natural-element-imbuing caster. This type of class could go in any one of dozens of directions, since Druids in popular fantasy cover such a huge range of practices and magics.

4) Mages?
This one's tricky. Sorcery is such a wide field that there's a ton of room for development of various flavors of mages. ToME already has several, including some really nifty and unusual ones like Paradox Mage or Anorithil. The problem here is that the different Archmage advanced categories already pretty much run the gamut. There's no need for an Arcanist, or an earthen caster, because they already exist. So I don't really know how much of that mental real-estate is left once you account all the combinations of Archmage trees.


I'm pretty sure I've had a few more knocking around in my head, but it's late and I want to submit this before I do something stupid and lose the post overnight. So what do you think? Any other standby you'd like to see? Anything in here that you vehemently disagree with?

I'd also like to say in closing that I really would prefer to see more attention given to really unusual classes. But no reason we can't have both, or at least have a discussion about it.

[Doctornull]

1) Generalist fighter type
I realize that "generalist" is about the least sexy designation ever, but what I'm getting at is the sword + bow fighter orientation. Sure, we have Temporal Wardens who do the melee + bow thing already, but since they're chronomancers I'd put them in their own category. You'd probably be using a lot of existing categories – something of a blend between Bulwark and Archer, but you'd probably want to have some Skirmisher-style talents too that focus on blending the two styles so as not to end up with a crappy Bulwark who's also a crappy Archer.

Have you tried the Nullpack's Storm Warden?

3) Druid
Despite being mentioned in the Wilder metaclass description, there isn't really anything very standard Druid-ish in the game. Summoners encapsulate one aspect, but their focus on summoning is so great that it works to the exclusion of the other elements. Given the influence of the antimagic folks, it seems like Druidism would be a natural (har har) source of power. It's hard to say if the Ziguranth would see it as too close to dirty sorcery, although that may not be a bad tension to revel in a bit.

For this, I'm thinking your D&D root-ensnaring, possibly shape-shifting, animal-befriending, tree-hugging (and animating) natural-element-imbuing caster. This type of class could go in any one of dozens of directions, since Druids in popular fantasy cover such a huge range of practices and magics.

D&D Druids were basically created whole cloth from a composite of shape-shifting crossed with bits of folk lore from like twelve different mythologies. It's never been a coherent thing, not even across different D&D editions.

I'd also like to say in closing that I really would prefer to see more attention given to really unusual classes. But no reason we can't have both, or at least have a discussion about it.

Most classes in ToME are pretty unusual.

[Faeryan]

Druid and Duelist are already in as addon classes. Go ahead and play them, give them the needed attention and maybe they will make it in the base game one day. Also, Bulwark is never crappy.

[Planetus]

There's also the Green Warrior addon that does S&S with bow... plus tons of tools and a little magic. I actually like the way they do the bow/sword combo. Instead of switching between weapon sets, you can have your bow in a tool slot, so you can wield both sword and bow at once.

I wouldn't be at all opposed to this as an addon, but I'd suggest combining something of your duelist (1 sword, free hand) with your generic warrior (sword and bow). Maybe make a combat tree that focuses on longswords wielded with finesse, thus Dex based, and another that lets you put a bow in your tool slot if you don't have anything in your off-hand? And then probably some defense/evasion/survival talents, and combat techniques/veteran/etc. Kind of the generic fantasy Hero.

[Atarlost]

I'd like to see something that approaches gish from the other direction. The arcane blade is all about channeling magic in melee. I'd like to see a multi-range class like the Temporal Warden was intended to be using magic for sniping and melee up close, reliant on fighting at the range an opponent is bad at. Thematically the arcane blade is a warrior that is using untrained magic. I'd take the other direction: an Angolwyn trained mage that has lesser talent at magic but compensates with physical training to pass as a fighter. Probably 1.1 or 1.2 on magic trees, one two handed tree, and one archery tree. Maybe start with meta and temporal unlocked and most of the blastier trees locked. From the generic side staff combat, combat training, divination, conveyance, and probably mobility with anything but combat training, staff training, and conveyance at reduced multipliers compared to more dedicated classes. A custom tree would be aimed at fighting rogue mages in melee since there isn't actually a spell interruption mechanic normally.

Actually, I think I'm talking about something a lot like the vanilla Angband ranger with a melee rather than missile weapon emphasis, though the concept space of the magic using archer is even barer in ToME at this time.

[brown recluse]

I think the concept of antimagic could be expanded beyond just one class tree. Some sort of dedicated antimagic class, like a witch hunter or inquisitor, focused on manaburn damage and spell disruption.

[darkgod]

Ooozemancer is a "more antiamagic" one.
The problem is that if you fully focus a class only on taht concept then the class sucks against everything else, which given the diversity of tome, is a lot.
Same as why we dont have speialized undead hunters or such

[Zonk]

For a generalist fighter, I would prefer a class that is about flexible equipment use: so they can use one handed + shield, two-handed, or dual wielding with the SAME talents.

Like, their 'gimmick' is that most of their talents are usable with these weapon combinations, but they behave differently.
They would not necessarily be particolarly strong but the equipment flexibility part could be fun.
Not sure what the flavour could be - something about being a scavenger that learns to use every kind of melee equipment while not giving up on weapons (like the Brawler).

(I suspect this has already been done in an addon, but it would not hurt to have them in the base game too )

On melee mages: maybe a staff-focused melee mage class? Perhaps a silly comparison, but think the Jedi / Sith and replace lightsaber with magic staff. So they would have the ability to use it to deflect projectiles, for example.

[Red]

Forge Knight doesn't focus on that, but it has abilities exactly like you describe.