Mage damage shields… the big numbers and bathe in light?

[Delmuir]

In another thread, a side discussion came up about Archmages, aegis, and damage shields.

People regularly discuss having HUGE numbers like 5k or even 12k and I don't understand. I've never gotten above 2.5k… maybe, and that was my absolute best mage.

I get it: crit, crit multiplier, heal mod plus aegis and shielding… even on semi-god mode with no buffs, that's only producing a 1.1k shield. Add a few buffs and it's up to 1.7k but nowhere near the numbers being discussed. I don't get it. In two years of play, I've never, ever come close to seeing gear that would get my crit multiplier up high enough… where does this gear drop? Far portals? I've stopped doing them as I've never found anything good?

Does the game produce better gear if you play online? I can't seem to sign in so I've never played online? What's missing?

This brings me to Bath in Light… my understanding was that this could crit (it can) and improve healing mod (it does). In fact, it can do so up to about 38% or so. However, that doesn't do me any good… because when I use a heal after that, it does't stack. I'm not sure what's going on but it doesn't seem to be doing me any good in terms of buffing my shields, and it's the entire reason I take that tree.

Ex. no gear… no crit: cast arcane reconstruction and get 431 damage shield, up to 781 with Aegis, for 4 turns.

If I use Bathe in Light, arcane reconstruction and aegis it ends up as a 3-turn for 294, obviously worse. Clearly, it doesn't stack.

I don't understand how to use these things to their maximum benefit or to get these crazy numbers that I keep hearing about.

[Red]

Bathe In Light gives you a damage shield, so the shield you usually get from Arcane Reconstruction doesn't apply. Not sure how to get around that, but that's what happening to you.

In addition, playing on Insane or Madness massively increases the number of rare/unique monsters, so you get a lot more randarts to play around with.

Finally, I believe part of those numbers might be from Displacement Shield, which effectively turns yourempty mana bar into extra damage shielding. That stacks with normal damage shields as well as getting affected by Aegis and the like, so that might be what you're missing.

However, I've never actually gotten these numbers myself, and am interested in hearing from someone who actually has.

[spastic]

So, I'm no expert, but I think what's happening is that people are getting there from a combination of shielding runes (or arcane reconstruction), time shield, Shielding, and Aegis.

I used a shielding rune with 413 damage, which got buffed by 70% thanks to Shielding. My time shield was 613, also buffed by Shielding, and it stacked with damage shield. Then I cast Aegis. I'm already at: (413*1.8+613*1.7)*2 = 3500 damage shield with no crits or heal mod tricks.

If you were to use Arcane Shield and Arcane reconstruction and stack the heal mod, then I imagine you can get much higher numbers. I know you can cancel regeneration effects by right clicking on them, so you can probably cancel damage shields so that you can get a new, more powerful shield from Arcane Reconstruction if that's required, but I've never tested that out.

Mex's archmage guide suggests that displacement shield was too unreliable at higher difficulties, so I didn't bother with it. Disruption shield is the one that converts damage to mana.

[Delmuir]

So, you're suggesting that the 5-12k numbers are not from a single damage shield but a cumulative one?

Okay… more questions though. I understand that disruption and displacement shields all stack with a heal-generated shield but what else does? Clearly, you can't stack a heal-generated shield over the bathe in light shield, which is super obnoxious, but what about shielding runes? I'm fairly sure they stack but do they also stack with the shielding spell from the Light category?

It's fairly irksome… I really don't understand why all damage shields just don't stack… it'd be so much easier to understand.

Having said that, can time-shield crit?

[spastic]

Well, it's possibly a single number from Arcane Reconstruction. I didn't max arcane reconstruction and arcane shielding, but here's some numbers from a guy in the vault: http://te4.org/characters/131376/tome/7 ... 147b90d2c1

Arcane reconstruction for 557, arcane shielding for 55%. Crits are at 315%. Arcane reconstruction crits, and is affected by heal mod of +32*3.15% from critical Bathe in light: 557*3.15*2 = 3500, which is then doubled by Aegis for ~7000.

[Red]

Damage shields will not stack with one another, and that includes Shielding Runes and Bathe and Light or Shielding Runes and Barrier.

Basically, you can't have the same status buff or debuff twice. (You can have similar ones though, such as Poison and Insidious Poison, or Wild Infusion and Wrath of the Woods.) So you should always go with your most powerful damage shield (probably Arcane Reconstruction, but maybe you have horrible healing and a great Shielding Rune) then cram on as many other shields as possible. Displacement Shield works on your mana pool, for instance, so it stacks with a damage shield. Displacement Shield redirects damage, so again, new kind of shield, stacks up just fine.

[donkatsu]

It's a single number from Arcane Reconstruction. You saw the 8.5k damage shield calculation in the other thread. Throw in a massive amount of healmod from Bathe in Light and you can easily shoot up to 12k. Sounds perfectly realistic to me.

You can cancel beneficial timed effects by right-clicking them. What you do is cast Bathe in Light and then cancel the shield so you can get Arcane Reconstruction's shield.

Damage shields do not stack, so anything that's a damage shield does not stack with a "heal-generated shield", which is a damage shield ("you automatically get a damage shield" -talent description). Disruption shield is not a damage shield. Displacement shield is not a damage shield. Time shield is also not a damage shield. Damage shields shield you from damage and that is all they do.

"even on semi-godmode"
Look at what stats semi-godmode actually gives you. Pretty much none of it helps with Aegis.

[Red]

Or snag the Elixir of Invulnerability. 1,000,000 point damage shield, then toss Aegis and whatever else you want on top.

Course, you'll only get five turns with it, so make it count. Unless your enemy happens to have that T1 artifact that can break damage shields.

[Delmuir]

It's a single number from Arcane Reconstruction. You saw the 8.5k damage shield calculation in the other thread. Throw in a massive amount of healmod from Bathe in Light and you can easily shoot up to 12k. Sounds perfectly realistic to me.

You can cancel beneficial timed effects by right-clicking them. What you do is cast Bathe in Light and then cancel the shield so you can get Arcane Reconstruction's shield.

This I don't quite buy…

For one, the numbers in his example were dubious. He over-inflated the effect of Aegis (really more like 1.83 and not 2.0) and the starting point, plus the heal mod was a ridiculous. Getting one of those would be tricky but all three? That's a miracle… although maybe on Madness or Insane as it was noted that more bosses show up.

My final question is about Bathe in Light. If I cancel it, doesn't the heal-mod go away as well or can I just cancel the shield? Also, doesn't the shield refresh each turn? I forget…

As for the semi-god mode… the stats for magic affect Arcane Reconstruction and they're pretty close to what I often finish the game with.

[cttw]

Unless your enemy happens to have that T1 artifact that can break damage shields.

Berzerkers can also shatter a shield now.

[Mankeli]

This I don't quite buy…

For one, the numbers in his example were dubious. He over-inflated the effect of Aegis (really more like 1.83 and not 2.0) and the starting point, plus the heal mod was a ridiculous. Getting one of those would be tricky but all three? That's a miracle… although maybe on Madness or Insane as it was noted that more bosses show up.

My final question is about Bathe in Light. If I cancel it, doesn't the heal-mod go away as well or can I just cancel the shield? Also, doesn't the shield refresh each turn? I forget…

As for the semi-god mode… the stats for magic affect Arcane Reconstruction and they're pretty close to what I often finish the game with.

Did you actually bother to read donkatsu's response though? It says 2,0 because it was 2,0 on my character. 1,8 heal mod isn't ridiculous, actually it's pretty bad if you count in characters that can have BiL. Goedalath rock alone gives 50 %...

The only thing that my character maybe had exceptionally high for a normal difficulty character was the crit mod.

Unless your enemy happens to have that T1 artifact that can break damage shields.

Berzerkers can also shatter a shield now.

Mindslayers too.

[Pigslayer]

I used to regularly get 5k damage shields on nightmare, this was prior to the bathe in light buff. Only Atamathon could break my shield after a couple of hits. I had 77% spell crit, 80 spell power, and +50% crit multiplier.

Arcane reconstruction + displacement shield + aegis was good enough, since most enemies couldn't touch me. This was on *old* nightmare, when the enemy talent scaling was nuts. I should've gotten disruption and time shield, just to see how OP shields get.

[donkatsu]

This I don't quite buy…

For one, the numbers in his example were dubious. He over-inflated the effect of Aegis (really more like 1.83 and not 2.0) and the starting point, plus the heal mod was a ridiculous. Getting one of those would be tricky but all three? That's a miracle… although maybe on Madness or Insane as it was noted that more bosses show up.

My final question is about Bathe in Light. If I cancel it, doesn't the heal-mod go away as well or can I just cancel the shield? Also, doesn't the shield refresh each turn? I forget…

As for the semi-god mode… the stats for magic affect Arcane Reconstruction and they're pretty close to what I often finish the game with.

Dubious? The numbers are coming straight off of his character sheet. You can look at his character data on the ToME servers. Click on the actual link and see for yourself. If you don't believe the data, then, well...

For Bathe in Light, look at the actual effects that it gives your character. There are two separate effects: Empowered Healing, and Damage Shield. The shield refreshes every turn, but as you've already learned, if you have an effect already up and you try to apply the same type of effect again, it doesn't take. Except Bathe in Light is an exception; as its description states, it adds its shield to pre-existing damage shields.

A naked semi-godmode character has zero crit modifier bonuses, zero heal modifier bonuses, and spellpower in the 50's. A real character should have better everything. Take a look at some more character sheets, then look at your character sheets, and it should be easy to figure out the discrepancy.