Mini-dungeons/quests… some replace escorts.

[Delmuir]

I propose 8 mini-dungeons/quests akin to the Merchant quest but related to escorts.

Right now, some of the available skills from escorts would be hugely valuable if one could get more than one or two levels in them (hard to do with random escorts). I think about vitality on a Cursed or Unflinching resolve on a mage, especially an undead one.

So, to that end I suggest mini-quests that operate like this:

1. Random event on map produces very small dungeon referencing an escort that you've already saved. You have to chose to do it right then.

2. If you complete said dungeon then it activates another pop-up quest that will show up a few levels later in the game, like an escort mission.

3. The reward for such a quest is another level of the skill that the original escort gave you. Which escort it is would be indicated on the pop-up option.

4. For each one of these mini-quests that you attempt (whether you succeed or not is irrelevant), there is one less escort during the game. The total possible skills that you can gain remains the same… hence reducing the number of escorts as you attempt these quests to keep it balanced.

5. If you pass up the quest then the number of escorts remain the same. If you fail the quest well… that still counts just like failing an escort mission.

6. Should you complete an entire run of four of these mini-dungeons based on an escort save in which you gained a skill then you're able to max out the skill that you're working on… such as unflinching resolve.

7. Should you complete an entire run of four of these mini-dungeons based on an escort save in which you gained a category then you get an addition .2 to the category strength.

8. Obviously if the Zigur betrayal happens then the pop-up missions could be "seek and kill" type missions or some variant.

9. Should you complete a run of mini-dungeons and/or escort missions (the same total so you could do two mini-dungeons and eight escorts or half and half or whatever) then in the East, another potential mission pops up. I'm not sure what the reward could be… maybe gear or some additional stats or whatever… I don't know.

10. Lastly, I think these quests should be hard. They should be slightly higher level than you and tricky… maybe even trickier than an escort mission.

Anyway, that's my idea… Thoughts?

[HousePet]

I'm not sure that an extra point in a talent you have already got the first point in, is worth the extra risk.

Also, this is very complicated.

[Delmuir]

Not worth the extra risk? Then decline the option… it comes at no cost as you'd still get another escort. However, some abilities are worth some extra risk… although, you could always must make it equally difficult to the normal escort missions. That's an easy fix.

Still, I don't think your premise holds up. After all, is there any build or class in which you'd take a skill from every escort? No, of course not. You take the stats from some or most…

More so, how is it complicated? Complicated to code? I don't know...

Perhaps my explanation is complicated but it should have zero impact on game-play… you'd wander around the same, except after your first escort save in which you took the skill, this would come up as an option while you wander the map. Heck, you could even put it in levels like the "damp cave" and other mini-dungeons, which already exist.

I'm having a hard time grasping how it's difficult or not worth the risk (which doesn't really exist if declining the option costs you nothing).

[HousePet]

You've said that these quests should be hard, maybe even trickier than the escort missions. Therefore, its increased risk. As most talents have diminishing returns, the reward is less than a standard escort quest.
Not worth the risk is still a relevant consideration with an opt out option, there is no point adding something if nobody ever uses it, or it becomes a newbie trap.

As for complexity, a standard escort quest is just escort the npc to a portal. Whereas these new ones are complete a random mini dungeon, then another quest that randomly appears later, therefore it is more complex.

[Delmuir]

Gotcha… noted.

Well, as I stated, just make the mini-dungeons easy or at least comparably difficult… that's a pretty minor point in my mind.

The relevant idea is whether or not players would enjoy the option of being able to get five skill points for skill rather than the random distribution that the escorts offer, in addition, the option of skipping some escort missions. I know a lot of players have issues with them and historically in all game, anything described as an "escort" mission induces groans.

In addition, whether or not players would enjoy the idea of little mini-quests spread throughout the game, even ones different from what I imagined…

That's kind of the idea that I want to kick about… I like side-quests and I'd like to see more of them. Not sure in what capacity as this was my first thought on it.

[cctobias]

First I think we should address the core character mechanic behind the idea; that we should give people a way to reliably add multiple point in some talents. I think that this is desirable is not necessarily cut and dry.

I, personally, do not like the random nature of WHAT the escorts give. I am fine with the random nature of when and where they appear. But there is a secondary concern that is rather important, if you give people 9 "free" point in a category line you can trivialize the option to unlock the line itself. By allowing such a thing the only reason to unlock a line if you specifically want a skill that is not rewarde by an escort , for example you really want chant of resistance for some reason.

There actually are not that many escort talents that need to be pumped up beyond one. Vitality is actually quite decent at 1 point. Healing Light is quite decent at one point. I just ran a winning adventurer on Insane and at the end he had enough SP and crit that it healed for something like 800 life with one point.

Some escort talents get their lion's share of benefit from but may have a use at higher talent levels, for example Heightened Senses at 3 lets you disarm traps.

There are actually very few talents you would want to pump, I would say the following with some qualifications:
- Chant of Fortress: This is talent level based but falls off around 3 points
- Chant of Fortitude: Only for the %life which is a nice thing, but saves are SP based so one point is quite good
- Bathe in the Light: extends the duration which is good
- Lucid Dreaming & sleep: These are very particular cases but they do benefit in saves or range from points
- arcane eye: changes its functionality quite a bit

Medium cases:
Piercing sight & heightened senses: with high cunning these work great but more is always better. Especially for PS on higher difficulties. HS's trap stuff is not necessary IMO and 1 point is fine even on Insane.
Vitality: more points helps but this scales with con, the first point gives a lot
Vision: SP based but points help

Things you don't need more than 1 pt:
Track: works great at one
Premonition: lion's share is SP
Nature's touch: lion's share is MP

I am leaving the rest out as I don't really care about most of them.


Anyway if we consider for a second Diviniation, having 9 "escort" points, you can put 5 in aracane eye, 1 in premonition, and 3 in vision and basically have gotten 90% of the value of the entire line without using a cat point.

I am not sure this is a good thing.

However I am also not of the opinion that having randomness being a "dampening" (its not limiting, it just makes 9 seers implausible) factor on this effect is a good thing.

I run Succor and Easement addon so I can choose my escort's type because I don't like the randomness of something that can be a huge impact on build, but I also run a sort informal/personally enforced rule of not obviating cat point choice by not taking 9 seers. Also I rarely eally want to do that anyway. But if I did come up with a build where that was optimal I would probably try to come up with some thing else.

I agree, overall, with the idea of reducing randomness and giving an earned choice. But I would say there needs to be some effect that makes unlocking a category remain meaningful. Maybe you can agree to do a random dungeon on like 3 escorts for a guaranteed choice of any possible escort reward (not sure if this should cross the betrayal boundary). That Zigur betrayal gives track is a Big Deal, beyond that meh, dream walk can be key or not a big deal depending on build. And then the other 6 could be normal escorts.

Or even giving an option where you are "on the look out" for a certain type of escort and having this weight like a flat 66% chance to get that type and 33% of any of the other would be a big improvement.

Edit: obviously that adds up to 99, the last 1% chance is, of course, that the escort summons twenty level 100 Overpowered MH Wyrms and stops pretending he is not actually trying to get you killed.