Necromancer Rework

[RedBucket]

I played a necromancer a while back and it seems like most of my problems with them are already covered in this thread(no place for generics, skills not ordered where useful, star fury is weird, damage types all over the place). A few thoughts:

Make lich form reduce cooldown and mana costs of nightfall instead of granting star fury.

Make impending doom and undead explosion do darkness damage, and make a talent that converts minion damage to darkness. Make a staff combat talent that lets you add another damage type to your staff so you can do darkness/cold.

Let skeleton/ghoul necromancers become ghosts like Kor's Fury.

[HousePet]

I'm going to code up a special ego for staves that lets you choose two elements, for Arcanum.

[Delmuir]

I played a necromancer a while back and it seems like most of my problems with them are already covered in this thread(no place for generics, skills not ordered where useful, star fury is weird, damage types all over the place). A few thoughts:

Make lich form reduce cooldown and mana costs of nightfall instead of granting star fury.

Make impending doom and undead explosion do darkness damage, and make a talent that converts minion damage to darkness. Make a staff combat talent that lets you add another damage type to your staff so you can do darkness/cold.

Let skeleton/ghoul necromancers become ghosts like Kor's Fury.

I'm opposed to changing the damage types. I rather like that the Necromancer has damage types that are "all over the place." It makes it one of the very few characters that can flourish everywhere.

The staff combat talent is awful to me and is exposed most dramatically with the Necromancer. That being said, having an "undead" category that includes cold, darkness, physical, and blight would be very, very cool.

Personally, I find the Celestial/Star Fury tree annoying. Why add neg/pos energy to the Necro? It's just another thing to micro-manage on a very micro-managed character. Now I have to balance souls, mana, AND neg/pos energy? It's just ridiculous. Why not create a tree that is Necro-only that essentially is just a clone of the star fury tree? Just to simplify the game-play to a reasonable degree?

I realize that no one has responded to my criticisms of gameplay complexity (not that complex is bad, but complex beyond reason is bad) but this could really use the help.

If you don't want to make a clone-tree then why not a tree that has two damage skills and two summoning skills?

As for the bloated nature of the build that HousePet mentioned, I would encourage you to revisit the back and forth on my attempts to solve that problem because I still think there are good ideas there.

I think this add-on is too powerful and doesn't solve the bloat issue but claims that the Necro is TOO powerful are absurd. I've played this class very, very heavily for a long time now and I absolutely think that it tapers off pretty dramatically at the end of the game, much like the summoner class. It's good enough to get you there pretty regularly but just doesn't finish strong.

[Orangeflame]

The negative energy energy added to the necromancer through lichform actually decreases the amount of 'micro-managing' you have to do. Unless if you messed up the lichform ritual and didn't 5/5 the skill, you get a whopping +1 negative/turn regeneration that takes a load off of your mana consumption. The most micro-managing part of the necromancer is minions, if, and only if, you try to keep them alive with you. If you use them as a room-clearing nuke that you cast when you need it, there isn't any brain-ache. If you're looking for optimal play, ie. farming souls with curse of the meek out of combat, then yes, there is micro-managing.

[Delmuir]

OrangeFlame,

The simple act of having to evaluate three different resources adds to the complexity of the character. Bloated, micro-managed, et al., that's just semantics.

The reality is that the Necromancer is awkward.

I understand how to use the minions to clear a room but it's worth noting that skills like "assemble" and "shadow tunnel" are oriented around minions that stay alive, which is odd because everything else about the minions are oriented around them being disposable.

I get it. No one likes change. It really doesn't matter how awkward a class is, people will defend the status quo, and maybe you're right. However, any comparison of the Necro to other classes clearly shows that it is bloated, unbalanced, incoherent in theme, complex and inconsistent in gameplay. Whether those features are good or bad are incidental. I think they're bad and lots of people disagree but it is an odd class and there is room for improvement.

[0player]

Or maybe it's not about defending the status quo, but going for more appealing/interesting version, even if it's old and bloated as you say? Please don't attack those who don't share your vision. Moreso, don't call your visions "reality".
(I don't know whether this is the place to discuss your ideas for improvement, it has a thread dedicated to them. I personally think that they make for a dull generic tree, but oh well.)

About Neg energy: it seems thematic, and it requires almost no management with a ridiculous regen rate it has. As someone who usually picks some stuff like Earth's Eyes/Arcane Eye/Healing Light from escorts, I'm accustomed to having lots of bars . The Neg for necromancers has the benefit on reqiring no upkeep and not having to run around the world map like crazy to recharge it, as... certain other resources.

[HousePet]

I'm not sure how liches using celestial energies is thematic?

[RedBucket]

I'm not sure how liches using celestial energies is thematic?

Unlimited. Cosmic. Power.

Don't enemy liches get the shadow tree instead though?