Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

All new ideas for the upcoming releases of ToME 4.x.x should be discussed here

Moderator: Moderator

Message
Author
Lubaf
Higher
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:00 am

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#16 Post by Lubaf »

darkgod wrote:I like sradac's lore!
I don't, but only because it's harder to justify them being at all friendly with the Allied Kingdoms in this situation (and further, bringing up the question of how they made it to Var'Eyal).

But, then again, I care a little less about the lore, and a little more about the mechanics, as I want to get something like this race into default ToME, and thus want things to be more or less balanced. So, is there anything I missed in my reply to Doctornull, or in Davian Fuxa's version?

Thanks
Luc "Questioning" French

Davion Fuxa
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1293
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:39 am
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#17 Post by Davion Fuxa »

I don't see any problem with the 'Yogre' fitting in with the Allied Kingdoms and getting along. So long as they are toilet-trained and have some measure of civility, how a Race looks shouldn't really be an issue - outside of the Undead Races which are different. Also of note as well is that they don't need to start in the Far East when playing as an Anorithil or Sun Paladin; they can just start in the Yeek Starting Zone regardless of what class they pick, that's how Yeeks currently enter the world now.

In regards to Ogre's I think the basic framework is there. Depending on whether someone really wants to code up a Yogre or not, the stats/racial talents might be up for a bit of adjustment in their orientation.
Its amazing what the mind can come up with, but it shows talent to make something of it. - Davion Fuxa
Inscription Guide - Version 1.7.4 Steam Guide
Let's Learn Tales of Maj'Eyal YouTube Playlist
Edited Escapades of Fay Willows Google Doc

Sradac
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1081
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:18 am
Location: Angolwen

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#18 Post by Sradac »

quick and dirty way would be to invert the Yeeks stat points. I have a feeling that would be pretty OP though with that much extra Con to start with. Turtle addon found a way to make it work though.

And that reminds me, I need to play a megaturtle again.

Doctornull
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2402
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Location: Ambush!

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#19 Post by Doctornull »

Can we drop the Yeek thing? It was funny once, but now it's getting kind of dumb.

Regarding racial talents, here are a couple more ideas:

Ogric Wrath
Active (Physical, Frenzy)
Use: Instant
Cooldown: 47-20 turns
Duration: 10 turns
Effect: Let S = your size category. For the duration, you gain:
* (-10*S)% crit negation.
* (5 * S)% immunity to Confusion and Stun.
* (10*S)% knockback immunity and Lightning resistance.
At talent level 5, activating this ability also increases your size category by +1 for the duration.

Writ Large (cannot be unlearned)
Active
Use: 1 turn
Cooldown: 47-20 turns
Duration: 10 turns
Effect: Remove both Runic and Infusion Saturation, if any. Your Runes and Infusions cooldown twice as quickly for the duration. At talent level 5, you gain a new Inscription slot.
Check out my addons: Nullpack (classes), Null Tweaks (items & talents), and New Gems fork.

Davion Fuxa
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1293
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:39 am
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#20 Post by Davion Fuxa »

Ogric Wrath sounds like a neat concept - assuming Darkgod is fine with the idea of Size mattering a little more in regards to talents. I also think that having the critical negation would actually tie in well with the sort of lore background I gave - since Halflings are a Critical Strike centred race. The only thing that looks a bit off to me is the Confusion Resistance - maybe that should be something like Pin Resistance. On the Talent Investment 5/5 Size Increase, I wonder if that should just tie into any level - since it's a Racial Talent and no other Racials have a full investment bonus going for them.

Not really sure about Writ Large. It kind of sounds like a a pale imitation of Timeless for inscriptions - which is perhaps thematic if they are associated with the Shaloran - outside of the extra Inscription. Again I'd maybe make the extra Inscription slot occur with the initial investment and not full investment since it doesn't align with other Racials.

Edit: I might also suggest that he extra Inscription be bumped to something like Scar-Scripted Flesh as well, Ie, a Passive.
Last edited by Davion Fuxa on Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Its amazing what the mind can come up with, but it shows talent to make something of it. - Davion Fuxa
Inscription Guide - Version 1.7.4 Steam Guide
Let's Learn Tales of Maj'Eyal YouTube Playlist
Edited Escapades of Fay Willows Google Doc

Hogulus
Thalore
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:28 pm

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#21 Post by Hogulus »

Big long lore idea for ogres:
There is some controversy behind the origins of the Ogres of Maj'Eyal. A few mentions here and there of "hulking magical brutes" and "Sher'Vogr" in writings - back to the Age of Haze seem to suggest a race of magically-engineered foot soldiers, loyal flesh-and-blood golems to keep lesser races in line while the Sher'Tul tackled bigger problems, but these mostly come from small rural towns prone to belief in old-wives'-tales, and the name "ogre" is never used in documents from that era outside of children's bedtime stories. In any case, mentions of these brutes abruptly vanished right about when the Sher'Tul did; if these enforcers existed, they vanished with their masters, and if they didn't, their masters' disappearance made the horror-stories featuring them pointless.

What is known, though, is that during their war with the Conclave, the Halfling empire of Nargol turned to ever more desperate and cruel experiments. They managed to keep their yeek-based projects under control until the invasion of their main facility, but further north, other researchers dealt with more hazardous research and a higher escape rate. Chief Researcher Martolep's notes prior to establishing the facility mostly consist of complaining about the unrealistic expectations of immediate results given to him by the Nargol generals, but one particular entry ended in an interest in the old fables of Sher'Tul-made brutes used to scare children into staying well-behaved, and wishing he could make something like that to pound the Conclave into submission. This was his last entry for a week; in two weeks, the facility was established, far in the arctic wastes.

While some speculate Martolep found a process used by the Sher'Tul to create these mythical soldiers, or discovered a trove of them sealed in forgotten ruins, it seems more likely that he found some other, struggling humanoid race and used them as fodder for his experiments, like his bretheren did with the Yeeks to the south. Unlike their counterparts, this precursor race is functionally (if not technically) extinct, systematically kidnapped in Martolep's increasingly-desperate race to turn them into useful weapons. His researchers worked tirelessly, warping their subjects' bodies with overgrown muscle; many were given deformed, innately magical brains, tied into magic's weave like an artifact, with the intent of making them capable of casting spells without being smart enough to question orders. This idea never seemed to work, and escapes by empowered test subjects were both common and destructive.

Martolep found himself having to justify the enormous expense in keeping his lab running without any usable results, and had to work on a second field of study to keep his position; the enormous bodies and infused energy of the "failed" experiments, those formidable and flowing with magic but still not subservient to their Halfling masters, made a perfect canvas for exploring the then-fledgling field of rune and infusion creation. The surviving notes of these experiments suggest they would have been extraordinarily painful; crude attempts at heat-beam runes that left the victim's skin forever searing like an invisible branding iron was held to it for eternity, and healing infusions with a nasty habit of becoming infected during the inscription process, resulting in normally-ignorable postules "healing" to massive cysts. One researcher noted that the threat of being assigned to inscription research was the only thing that would keep most of the test subjects from rebelling, then added that this was unfortunately only a short-term solution, as they would eventually figure out that they'd all be sent there no matter how well they behaved.

At some point, when the war had gotten so bloody that guard details at the facility needed to be recalled to the front line, the facility was... well, "destroyed" doesn't really cover the depth of it. There was no surviving lab equipment, most of the bodies found were pulverized to pulp or torn in half by their legs, and dropping analysis from the surrounding region suggests many halflings were devoured on the spot. Martolep's body was only found months after the original excavation, covered in prototype inscriptions, his charred and bubbling skin still producing enough boiling-hot acid to eat a 50-foot-deep grave through the facility basement. The only surviving notes were those found under corpses; the test subjects tortured and maimed, but it is believed they did not spend much effort desecrating corpses, possibly out of a desire to simply forget everything and get away once their tormentors were dead. The Empire did not mourn the loss of an unproductive laboratory, though several teams of skirmishers in the north lost good men to strange beasts of inconsistent description - sometimes with four arms, sometimes with two heads, but always scarred by pulsing inscriptions, and always bearing colossal muscle-bound frames alongside blasts of uncontrolled magic.

The frigid wastes weren't a popular travel route before the old legends of the "Fists of the Sher'Tul" started popping up again, so it's unsurprising that the saner survivors of the facility managed to set up a few small tribes without much notice or interference from other civilizations. They knew how inscriptions worked better than their halfling tormentors, far too well for their own comfort in fact, but passed the knowledge on through tribal customs, adding a tradition of tattoos to mark days of great sorrow, accomplishment, or joy. Their bodies and magical minds consumed a great deal of energy, and although the remarkably clever invention of an automatic ice-fishing device built with lightning-based runes certainly helped their diets, it wasn't enough to prevent them from gradually hunting mammoths to extinction.

With farming impossible in their frozen homeland, many of the tribes simply starved to death, unable or unwilling to make contact with the outside world. Some, however, ventured south in search of fertile land or trading partners, and found both in great supply following the chaos of the Spellblaze. Stories of their brutality and devastation spread like wildfire, but few were confirmed; it is unclear whether the ogres actually attacked any of the settlements they came to occupy, or if distressed homesteaders simply saw the arrival of a giant magical monster as a sign they should look elsewhere. Some ogres managed to make connections and profit in trade with those too desperate to care who or what's giving them supplies; they eventually developed a reputation among those "in the know" as being honest to a fault. Some thought them stupid, but the more observant noted they found it abhorrent to trick or take advantage of another - and while ogres gave a lot of leeway to their trade partners and could be fooled, those who got caught trying to trick them with solid evidence tended to be found dead, their ribcages crushed and their bodies nailed to several trees. (Such acts are common among enraged ogres; one could be forgiven for thinking them sadists, but the intent seems to be more along the lines of sending a message and discouraging future behavior.)

When the Spellhunt came, ogres' runes made them a conspicuous target, and their monstrous forms made them seem like an obvious abomination to be destroyed for the good of nature. The ogres scattered and fled anywhere they could, taking refuge with the Shalore or the mages of Angolwen, working on the farms of feudal lords powerful enough to keep the torches and pitchforks at bay, or hiding in the woods as feral hunters, their voracious appetites rapidly depriving the area of edible game. Ogres survived as a race, but with only a couple of tribes scraping by in the north, and the rest of the species scattered both socially and geographically, they were dead as a society.

After the Spellhunt's end, however, the ogre diaspora found themselves excelling in a variety of fields. They found themselves volunteering for dangerous research in Angolwen, as while the memories of their abuse at the hands of halflings still ran strong, they deeply appreciated the respect and dignity their elven and human colleagues gave them compared to the halflings' treatment, and were more than happy to risk being lightly wounded by a magical misfire that would kill a Shalore. Those who became peasants were fiercely loyal to their kings, thinking of them as benefactors who saved them from the Spellhunt, and developed a reputation as steadfast knights, willing to follow even the most suicidal of orders; not long after, they became popular as mercenaries for the exact same reason, and even sought-after by the few pirate crews who came to shore often enough to stock enough food for them. Some took up the life of trading again, re-establishing their reputation for fair deals, forgiving attitude to irregularities or extenuating circumstances, and terrible wrath on the few who they caught cheating them. And, of course, some stayed in the wilds, caring more to eat people than negotiate with them, and once again became the stuff of children's nightmares.

Ogres thus enjoy a sort of uncomfortable state of acceptance in the "civilized" nations of Maj'Eyal. While hideous, brutal, and covered in runes that pulse like they're ready to blast the area apart at any minute, they're also very well-adapted to the developing economy in the Age of Ascendancy, and despite the occasional man-eating hermit ogre in the wilderness, they're much less likely on average to betray someone or otherwise cause them harm than your average Cornac. They are often thought of as dim-witted or mentally incapable, but their successes speak otherwise, despite their dopey mannerisms, slowness of speech, love of food, and disdain for high society. It's sometimes said that an ogre's mind is more like an ox than a horse, and gets through every problem at the exact same speed; developing a new rune or a complex trade strategy will take them as much time as doing a basic addition problem, just as their clubs can smash through solid plate armor as quickly/slowly as papier-mâché. It may be the case, however, that ogres find it useful to be thought of as "dumb," allowing them to avoid suspicion and tempt potential traitors into making brash moves, or simply care more about getting things done than impressing anyone.

As a somewhat speculative footnote... Full contact with Var'Eyal has not been made in ages, but it is believed that the orcs recruited a few starving ogre tribes into their army during their invasion, then brought some back to the distant continent in their retreat. The few Sunwall disciples who have wound up in Maj'Eyal due to farportal experiments were, for the most part, not educated well enough in history to be useful for any kind of research, but one mentioned that a small camp of ogres has taken residence alongside the Anorthil and Sun Paladins, and ogres may even be among those groups' numbers. The only reason he offered for their change of allegiance was that the Sunwall "had better food." While ogres' famous appetites, fueled by their high metabolism, make this a somewhat plausible explanation, their tendency towards extreme loyalty calls it into question. Perhaps the orcs treated them as expendable distractions like the trolls they created, and the ogres lacked the numbers to respond to the mistreatment like they did in the northern Nargol facility. It's also possible that the "better food" reason is entirely true, but for different reasons than our source thought. Having seen entire tribes starve to death, they could have determined that the orcs' rate of producing or consuming food was unsustainable. They've been on enough sinking ships to know one when they see one, so to speak.
Also, idea for a racial talent:

Growing Impatience: For every attack or spell you perform that fails to critically hit, you gain X% critical multiplier. This can stack up to Y times, and scoring a critical hit reduces this bonus by Z.

Davion Fuxa
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1293
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:39 am
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#22 Post by Davion Fuxa »

The above Lore bit almost further cemented my view of a sort of 'Yeti/Bigfoot' race.
Its amazing what the mind can come up with, but it shows talent to make something of it. - Davion Fuxa
Inscription Guide - Version 1.7.4 Steam Guide
Let's Learn Tales of Maj'Eyal YouTube Playlist
Edited Escapades of Fay Willows Google Doc

Doctornull
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2402
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Location: Ambush!

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#23 Post by Doctornull »

Davion Fuxa wrote:no other Racials have a full investment bonus going for them.
Just to correct this: the Skeleton's racial has a "+1 bonus life" mechanic tied in at full investment. That's a really big deal.

Davion Fuxa wrote:Not really sure about Writ Large. It kind of sounds like a a pale imitation of Timeless for inscriptions - which is perhaps thematic if they are associated with the Shaloran - outside of the extra Inscription.
An extra Inscription slot is a really big deal, IMHO. It's one of the major game limitations: normally you can only have 5 inscriptions, and they're worth a lot.

So if the extra inscription is granted, yeah, I'm okay tying it to either full investment in an otherwise mediocre talent. (That's why the base talent feels like a pale imitation -- it is mediocre, since +1 inscription slot is huge.)
Check out my addons: Nullpack (classes), Null Tweaks (items & talents), and New Gems fork.

Davion Fuxa
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1293
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:39 am
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#24 Post by Davion Fuxa »

Really I think it comes down to how different (or not different) do we want to make the Ogre Racial talents from the non-Undead races. Personally I'd be fine if Ogre's were made to be more unique then the other non-undead races but I can see some reason not to in order to keep the Undead races as unique as possible.

To sort of draw a picture of the structure for a more cookie cutter build that sort of matches the other non-Undead races if it is desired to keep Ogre's somewhat in the mold:

Ogre

Metarace : Giant, Troll, Ogre, whatever
Locked : Yes - Maybe use the Ogre Boss enemy idea from the Rhaloran Camp and make killing said boss unlock the class / Make the Inquisitor unlock Arcane Blade as has been suggested before
Live Per Level : 13 Hitpoints on Level up (or just more in general)
Experience Penalty : 30% Additional Experience needed to Level up (or just higher in general)

Stats : Strength ~ Magic ~ Cunning > Dexterity ~ Constituion > Willpower

Additionally Notes:

Starts as Size Big, begins with Runes instead of Infusions for Inscriptions, Starts in Scintillating Caves

Racial Talent 1 - Active

For a specified duration, talent does some sort of positive buff for the Ogre. Further Talent Level investment reduces Cooldown. Could also be a talent with a much for instant effect (Dominant Will, Timeless, Nature's Pride, Stone Walking, Wayist, Pride of the Orcs)

Racial Talent 2 - Passive (or Sustain)

Gives an ongoing bonus (Overseer of Nations, Magic of the Eternals, Unshackled, Guardian of the Wood, Power is Money or has a specified trigger (note Dwarven Stoneskin, Magic of the Eternals, Duck and Dodge, Militant Mind, Born into Magic) which provides a buff of some sort.

Racial Talent 3 - Passive (or Sustain)

Same type of setup as Racial Talent 2.

Racial Talent 4 - Active

Same type of setup as Racial Talent 1.
Its amazing what the mind can come up with, but it shows talent to make something of it. - Davion Fuxa
Inscription Guide - Version 1.7.4 Steam Guide
Let's Learn Tales of Maj'Eyal YouTube Playlist
Edited Escapades of Fay Willows Google Doc

Davion Fuxa
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1293
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:39 am
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#25 Post by Davion Fuxa »

Maybe to throw another idea for an active ability out:

Remote Inscription
Activated, Cooldown : 50 - 5 * talent_level

You activate an opponents Inscription from those they have available, benefiting from positive effects or making use of it offensively. Beneficial Inscriptions used this way still benefit the target as well your own character. Offensive Inscriptions originate from the target, though you will take no damage if you are in their line of fire and can control the direction that they aim towards. The effect takes the turn use of the Inscription - no turn use for instantly used Inscriptions. Cunning is used to determine power and a check is made against the opponents Mental Save.

Alternatively

Forced Inscription Mis-fire
Activated, Cooldown : 50 - 5 * talent_level

You force Inscriptions on an opponent to misfire, resulting in them going on cooldown. The effects scale with Cunning and are checked against an opponents Mental Save. Each Inscription available makes their own check up until a total of Talent Level Inscriptions have gone or cooldown or the opponent has run out of Inscriptions to check against.
Its amazing what the mind can come up with, but it shows talent to make something of it. - Davion Fuxa
Inscription Guide - Version 1.7.4 Steam Guide
Let's Learn Tales of Maj'Eyal YouTube Playlist
Edited Escapades of Fay Willows Google Doc

Hogulus
Thalore
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:28 pm

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#26 Post by Hogulus »

Davion Fuxa wrote:The above Lore bit almost further cemented my view of a sort of 'Yeti/Bigfoot' race.
Heh, glad you liked it :) I was going for a sort of combination of yetis and neanderthals, alongside the traditional image of ogres as dumb hungry brutes; their slow-but-thoughtful minds were inspired by the theory that neanderthals were actually smarter than humans, just less social and aggressive, leading to them losing territory (and lives) to better-organized human tribes. The only problem I have with shaggy-haired ogres is that it'd make inscriptions harder to apply and see...

A few more ideas about racial stats / abilities:
  • Instead of (or in addition to) giving them an extra rune slot, they could have a racial ability that works like a rune/infusion or combination of several runes/infusions; maybe an ability that grants them a chance to use a "free" Rune of Lightning or Movement Infusion (maybe even random between the two) when they take a large hit, or an attack rune when hit by an appropriate detrimental effect (Biting Gale on confuse, etc). They could also enhance some of the lesser-used runes/infusions; causing vision runes / sun infusions to reliably cure blindness and grant brief immunity to it, for example, giving attack runes a chance to trigger a second attack rune at random, or causing heat-beam/gale/insidious inscriptions to cure all effects of their chosen type, rather than just one (or dramatically increasing their damage).
  • If we wanted to get crazy with it, ogres could have the ability to make their own runes/infusions, letting them inscribe themselves with a basic (white-quality, non-stat-based) version of most runes at any time, for free (with a 15-turn-long inscription process, so no swapping mid-combat). This would grant them an interesting playstyle of having a couple of "reliable" inscriptions always equipped, and leaving the remaining slot(s) free for an inferior, disposable rune that can be swapped out depending on what enemies you expect to encounter.
  • The previously-mentioned Growing Impatience buff could gain stacks faster if an attack critically hits but is shrugged off, making it not-useless for crit-heavy builds.
  • As another alternative to granting another rune slot, they could gain the ability to imbue a set of gloves with a rune, effectively turning it into a charm with that rune as an on-use effect (and triggering a lengthy charm cooldown when used).
  • If we don't want to grant them a means of clearing Runic/Infusion Saturation, it might be sort of interesting to instead give them powerful melee/spellpower buffs that increase as Saturation stacks up, granting you the option of locking yourself out of your utilities over the course of a long fight to gain a corresponding increase in brute force.
  • Building off the first idea I had here, Imperfect Runes: Your body is etched with homemade inscriptions, passed down through tribal traditions and made with whatever materials could be found in the wilderness. At talent level 1, you can activate an Imperfect Rune of Teleportation which will carry a nearby foe with you to your new location. At talent level 3, you gain an Imperfect Rune of Shielding which will cause 25% of its absorption value to you as damage if it is broken before it wears off. At talent level 5, you gain an Imperfect Regneration Infusion which will mitigate ongoing damage-over-time effects, but cannot raise your HP higher than it was the previous turn.
  • Might be weird, but maybe grant them a large amount of HP/level, but a low Constitution and maybe even lower max-HP returns from Constitution, granting them a large HP pool that does nothing to increase physical saves or help them learn constitution-based talents.
Anyway, I love the ideas here, particularly the inscription-sabotage ones above my post! These ideas probably aren't better than those, but I thought I'd post my thoughts in case someone found them interesting/useful.

Davion Fuxa
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1293
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:39 am
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#27 Post by Davion Fuxa »

Glad you liked my Inscription Sabotage Ideas. I figured that they could match a bit of what Yeeks can do with their first talent - though perhaps be more useful towards bosses. Another Alternative idea as well to sort of include Lubaf's original 'healing' idea:

Manipulative Activation
Activated, Cooldown : 50 - 5 * talent_level

You randomly put one of your enemies inscriptions on cooldown and replenish X amount of resources. The resources replenished scale with Cunning.

Also worth mentioning, I didn't mention a range for any of these Inscription Sabotage idea. I assume that everything would have a very low or even adjacent target only range - similar to how Yeeks have to get close enough to an enemy to make use of their ability.

I also had an idea for both an Ogre enemy and an Unlock tied into that enemy - Again, make a Boss Enemy in the Rhaloran Camp, but he's a Backup Guardian. (I assume there could still be other Ogre enemies long before him, but maybe this guy would have access to all the Ogre Racials along with whatever abilities to really showcase what Ogre's could offer.

One late note too - I think maybe for the Racial Talents there should only be two Inscription/Tool Based type talents; one of which is a Passive (Scar Scripted Flesh?) and another that is an active. The other two Racials should be more related to 'Brute Force' or 'Giant Properties'.
Its amazing what the mind can come up with, but it shows talent to make something of it. - Davion Fuxa
Inscription Guide - Version 1.7.4 Steam Guide
Let's Learn Tales of Maj'Eyal YouTube Playlist
Edited Escapades of Fay Willows Google Doc

Davion Fuxa
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1293
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:39 am
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#28 Post by Davion Fuxa »

I also figure I should be throwing out an idea I had about potentially sort of making Ogres even more similar to that of the ones in DCSS. Part of the reason I have been strongly suggesting Inscriptions and a sort of 'Resourceful' theme was due to how they played, but notably, DCSS Ogre's had little to no Damage negation or Defense.

Maybe as a sort of natural thing on Ogre's, they could have penalties due to their greater size.

-Due to being larger then most races, the equipment Ogre's wear provides them 80% of the Armor value that it normally provides - due to some sections not fully covering the Ogre's vital spots.
-Daggers and are extremely puny for them and not very usable. Ogre's receive an Accuracy and Damage Penalty when using them.
-It is rather hard to move around hidden or have enough space to practice gymnastics. Ogre's are barred from Metaclass : Rogue classes (Some leeway might be given here; if Marauders for example were able to adopt Two handed Weapons or something, could make Ogre's eligible to become them).

Edit:

Additional ideas then that I thought of after. Maybe the size idea from above could apply to Yeeks and Halflings as well; and to certain types of equipment.

On Halflings and Yeeks, they could receive Defense Penalties and Global Speed Penalties for wearing Heavy or Massive Armor. This could go a ways to make Heavy and Massive Armors a little weaker on them - though some means of compensating could be given to them as well.

For Yeeks, compensation could be given through Quickened. Quickened is already a 5/5 Talent Investment Stat regardless of character, so chucking in a reduced penalty modifier for armors could let them eventually fully negate the speed penalty from Heavier Armors - and also get the normal Global Speed Bonus they usually do.

Halflings could get some sort of bonus sort of like with Skeletons getting their 5/5 Talent Investment in Re-Assemble - maybe in Militant Mind, maybe in Indomitable.

In Light Armors or Robes, Yeeks and Halflings wouldn't experience any penalties - indirectly increasing the worth of Light Armors through another means. Ogre's wouldn't receive that benefit, since the Light Armor would still not covering all of the Ogre.
Its amazing what the mind can come up with, but it shows talent to make something of it. - Davion Fuxa
Inscription Guide - Version 1.7.4 Steam Guide
Let's Learn Tales of Maj'Eyal YouTube Playlist
Edited Escapades of Fay Willows Google Doc

Lubaf
Higher
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:00 am

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#29 Post by Lubaf »

Because I'm not sure why everybody else is so focused on runes and infusions, one more ability set proposal:

L1: Shield, scales with higher of MAG or CUN. Nonmagical.
L8: Passive that grants power in all three stats (at Weapon Mastery levels), and improves critical multiplier (but not crit chance)
L16: Resist Stun, Confusion, and Lightning.
L24: Instantly refill all resources (air, mana, stamina, etc.) except HP, at a cost of 5-25% of total HP; reverse scales with talent level, ignores shields, and, if cast when below standard cost, instead costs all but 1 HP.

Any problems with this loadout?

Thanks
Luc "Risk/Reward" French

Davion Fuxa
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1293
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:39 am
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Re: Brainstorming an "Ogre Magi" race

#30 Post by Davion Fuxa »

I think It's mostly because no Race really focuses on the use of Inscriptions. That makes it more unique concept and set apart from the other Races. It's new terrain so to speak in a way to develop the game as well.

It probably is possible however to create a class not centered on Inscriptions with Racials that are still distinct. To sort of describe what I mean:

-Having a 'Shielding' or 'Healing' Racial for example will overlap with other races - Undead with 'Bone Armor' and Orcs with 'Pride of the Orcs'.
-Having a talent that boosts critical chance or critical multipler overlaps with Shaloran 'Magic of the Eternals' or Halflings 'Luck of the Little Folk'.
-Resistance to Confusion overlaps a bit with a Yeeks 'Unity' or a Highers 'Overseer of Nations'

Highers also have Highborn's Bloom, which is one of the few advantages that race has for even using them; having Ogre's do something too similar will further push the Higher race into obscurity.

Main thing I'm getting at is that Inscriptions are very distinct - that helps to set the Ogre apart from the other Races on why players should use it.
Its amazing what the mind can come up with, but it shows talent to make something of it. - Davion Fuxa
Inscription Guide - Version 1.7.4 Steam Guide
Let's Learn Tales of Maj'Eyal YouTube Playlist
Edited Escapades of Fay Willows Google Doc

Post Reply