Class idea: Rimelord[Coders wanted!]

[NemesisZeru]

okay in response to your questions

Frozen Armour: Looks pretty good, although I'm not sure about it blocking fire attacks. It's thematically supposed to be a big weakness, y'know? The lightning thing is really interesting, though. Never knew that. What do you mean by "ice counter", exactly, though?

okay I'll give the fire thing may not be all that thematically alright it was best thing I could think of at the time could probably replace it with light or something.
and the ice counter is ice elemental retaliation damage that you do to those that attack you frozen scales has it.

Ice Adaptation: Would this be replacing Winter's armor? If not, the numbers on both would have to be tuned down. While cold immunity would fit, it might not exactly be balanced. Could make one slow resistance. Was considering adding that(even if slow doesn't seem that common, seems sorta fitting).

yes it would be replacing it when I made this tree intended for it to be a replacement defensive tree for blizzard taking damage from your own ice is a big part of the classes overall theme didn't intend to mess that up by giving the class the possibility of ice immunity should of made that clearer my bad.
also was considering giving ice adaptation some kind of berserker mode so that you could use this for more than just temperature management but didn't since it might end up generic could throw in status resist if you want.

Bloodfrost: I really like the idea of this! I almost feel like there could be sorta a small damaging factor to this(perhaps added in a separate passive) that causes the bloody ice to form spikes, dealing cold damage to the attacker if they're in melee range.

glad you like it didn't consider something like your damage to the attacker if their in melee range since that would be covered in frozen Armour.
did consider something like that ranged counter attack ability in solipsists discharge tree either as a temp draining passive for when this was off or as an alternate sustain option of this talent since really don't think the countering and defending should work simultaneously.
could just have it do your thing though.

Adv. Ice Armory: Seems interesting, although I'm not entirely sure how the armor hardiness thing works. So, if Frozen Shield can block say...lightning, then it'd let armor take 33%(at cap) of the elemental damage?

yeah if you wanna get an idea of how this works look at stone warden their stone fortress talent lets their resilience of the dwarves racial give them the ability to block elemental damage with their Armour.
just to clarify if the talent can block the incoming damage type it will reduce the damage by a max of 33% at cap but by no more than your max Armour value like Armour works for phys damage.
the talents meant to give you the ability to take more damage of more types and encourage the class to always have some kind of shield by giving you a big benefit for investing in frozen Armour up to the ice shield point.
also just realized this talent combo would reduce self inflicted ice damage not sure how to feel about that.

Bunker Down: Seems interesting, would just need good numbers tuning to make sure the lost movement speed isn't a death sentence.

I'll admit this would stop you from just outrunning enemies, but unless your a speed boosting class that's rarely all that good an escape option especially late game, also this talent wouldn't interfere with the much better idea of teleport escapes and a solid movement infusion would more than make up any loss from this, so overall by the time you get this you should have much better escape options than just running.
this talent is more for helping you survive when your debuffed into complete helplessness.
though it might be a good idea to put a bit more status recovery and prevention into it maybe a flat save boost with smaller per debuff save boost, maybe give negative life for each debuff with some healing per effect removal or time out so you don't cure yourself to death. I dunno this is the status handling part of the tree but its more for surviving mass debuffs until your escape option is available.

and as for "frozen form" yeah it should be a metaclass wide generic utility tree with things all cryomancers need like ice resistance, ice + maybe ice block penetration, ice damage boost, maybe ice affinity so you heal a bit with ice damage though that would probably be better as a class specific thing, maybe ice based healing and or status recovery talents just general utility things for a single element based meta class.

and as for tankiness in tome here's a quick rundown of defensive and how to tank methods feel free to mix and match

health based
the method most classes end up using to survive casters. health based survival is all about massive one shot proof hp bars and high recovery.

Armour based
yeah this is common to most melee classes it's good for resisting most melee damage but aside from stone wardens implementation of it it does nothing to block spells so its typically done along side the health based for melee classes

defense based
exclusive to rouge and agility based classes this approach is about avoiding damage in the first place is tested against the opponents accuracy to avoid the attack entirely. typically does nothing to reduce damage you can't avoid but can avoid ranged attacks, don't think it works on spells.
generally not good for tanking typically its given to melee classes with dex instead of strength along with health based defense

resistance based
flat damage reduction of specific elements is implemented by most classes through thick skin but the only class that I could say really specializes in it would be wyrmic.

max damage limit
some races/classes have limits on how much damage they can take in one shot

talent based
catch all term for class specific defensive ability's that aren't just extensions of the above methods with the exception of fungus users pretty much all truly defensive classes use some thing like this typically alongside other methods a few examples are
solipsism + feedback
that generic mage tree about shielding
light generic tree + chants
sunpallys second life ability plus counter shield
Oozemancers Oozes
berserkers/marauders unstoppable
defilers bone shield

and that's all the general methods of protecting yourself in the game aside from Armour and defense based which normally have stat conflicts with each other you will typically try to gather as many of these various methods as you can in order to survive.

also just so its clear pretty much every class has some kind of defensive talents, talent based is just for the ones that are distinctly not based on one of the other methods also this list only deals with direct damage you should also consider status resistance and recovery.

for true tankiness you need to be able to take a lot of damage, block a lot of damage, avoid getting one shot, manage statuses, be able to recover quickly, and prevent damage in the first place.
to varying degrees of course.

Well, if it's replacing the Blizzard tree, some skills would need to be moved to another tree(mostly the first and the last), but otherwise, could work. Iunno if it'll end up being a metaclass, though. x3

That said, the stuff you've listed has been pretty helpful, so I'm going to start thinking on a Frozen Form tree(Along with some tweaks to Shivering Strike, Frozen Shell and Winter's Armor to make them better defensive tools, now that I have more of an idea on how defensiveness should work. :3

[NemesisZeru]

How about...this? Still messing with flat numbers, admittedly.


Gathering Storm
Magic

Shivering Strike
Cooldown: 2
Generates 5 Temperature
Range: 1
Strike the target with a chilling strike, doing (50-300) damage as cold.

Frigid Wind
Cooldown: 3
Generates 10 Temperature
(Range would be similar to the Corruptor's Blood Spray at it’s lower levels, I’m thinking)
Blow an icy wind forward, dealing (30-200) damage as Cold in a radius X cone, and lowering the enemy's cold resistance by (5-25%) for 3 turns.

Rising Storm
Passive
Every melee hit does X cold damage, And has X% chance to freeze the enemy for (1-4) turns).
In addition, your mastery of iceblocks allows your damage to pierce them far more effectively, resulting in little damage to the iceblock itself, but considerable damage to the enemy(So it'd go from like 50% iceblock/50% target to like, 20% iceblock/50% target)

Frostbite
Cooldown: 5
Generates 3 Temperature a turn.
Range: 1
Infect a target with a deadly chill, slowing them by (10-30%) and doing (25-70) cold damage each turn, for 5 turns.



Blizzard
Willpower

Glaciate
Passive

The Rimelord becomes permanently coated in a thin layer of ice, gaining (25-125)HP. When damaged, the ice cracks and quickly begins to reform, giving(10-50%) healing mod for 5 turns.


Frozen Shell
Sustain
15 Temperature

Harden the layer of ice with focus, gaining X armour and +50% cold resistance(It'd be neat if this coldness didn't effect Temperature effect damage). However, this mystical ice is vulnerable to fire, and the Rimelord takes (+50%-+25%) more damage from fire attacks. Taking more then X% of the Rimelord's life in fire damage will cause Frozen Shell to melt, disabling the sustain, but giving +25-50%) fire resistance for X turns.


Crystal Fortress
Active
20 Temperature
Cooldown: 15

The armor of Frozen Shell becomes jagged and sharp. The Rimelord gains (20-60) armor, and (+15%-+40%) armor hardiness, but loses(50-25%) movement speed for 5-9 turns. During this time, the Rimelord is immune to movement effects.


Shroud of Winter
Sustain
Cooldown: 10
Generates 10 Temperature a turn

Summon a furious blizzard in range 3 around yourself. While the blizzard rages around you, gain +25% evasion, and enemies lose LoS. Enemies in the blizzard take 75% weapon damage as cold each turn, and any enemy who dies in the radius freezes, becoming an iceblock. The blizzard lasts 3 turns after the sustain is deactivated, costing no temperature during this time.





Frozen Aegis:

Crystalline Shield
Sustain
10 Temperature
Create a shield of pure ice. This shield is capable of blocking cold and physical damage, but will break if it blocks more then X damage in one attack(Scales up with temperature), disabling the sustain for (6-2) turns.

Using this skill with a shield adds the shield's block amount and blockable elements to the Crystalline Shield


Icy Focus
Passive

Level: 1 Shield gains the ability to cause Frigid Counterstrikes. This is similar to the regular Counterstrike in mechanic, but rather then extra damage, it instead stuns for a brief time
Level 2: By purifying the shield, Crystalline Shield can now block Lightning damage.
Level 3: The shield glimmers in the light, and can now block Darkness damage. Frigid Counterstrike stuns for 2 turns.
Level 4: The shield grows even colder, and can now block Fire damage. Frigid Counterstrike applies the Wet debuff.
Level 5: Cold is eternal. Your Crystalline Shield can now block Temporal damage. Frigid Counterstrike stuns for 3 turns.


That's all I've got for Frozen Aegis so far. I want the tree to specialize in the Crystalline Shield, just need to think on more specifics. Thoughts?


Possible idea for a skill

Cold Attunement:
Passive

Your freeze effects last 1-4 turns longer, but each time the Rimelord freezes a target, it generates (30-15) Temperature

Makes freezing rewarding, but at the same time riskier. Freeze too many enemies, and you might not like the weather. D:

[astreoth]

happy to know my advice is helping here's a few pointers on trouble spots in your latest ideas

Gathering Storm
Magic

Shivering Strike
Cooldown: 2
Generates 5 Temperature
Range: 1
Strike the target with a chilling strike, doing (50-300) damage as cold.

Frigid Wind
Cooldown: 3
Generates 10 Temperature
(Range would be similar to the Corruptor's Blood Spray at it’s lower levels, I’m thinking)
Blow an icy wind forward, dealing (30-200) damage as Cold in a radius X cone, and lowering the enemy's cold resistance by (5-25%) for 3 turns.

Rising Storm
Passive
Every melee hit does X cold damage, And has X% chance to freeze the enemy for (1-4) turns).
In addition, your mastery of iceblocks allows your damage to pierce them far more effectively, resulting in little damage to the iceblock itself, but considerable damage to the enemy(So it'd go from like 50% iceblock/50% target to like, 20% iceblock/50% target)

Frostbite
Cooldown: 5
Generates 3 Temperature a turn.
Range: 1
Infect a target with a deadly chill, slowing them by (10-30%) and doing (25-70) cold damage each turn, for 5 turns.

okay rather than being a temperature building spell tree this is more half that half melee tree all badly implemented.

with shivering strikes range it should be a melee ability with melee weapon scaling with what you have their a bump attack would almost always be a better option.

frigid wind is a step in the right direction but that cooldown is way too low.

rising storm could use some work but it is definitely something the class should have just not in a spell based tree put it in a melee one.

frostbite eh good idea but the range and per turn temp gain bit need work.

okay overall some good ideas here they just shouldn't be in here or need some work.

my suggestions for how to design the tree would be to look at archmage and the celestial classes anthorils light building offense tree should give you some general idea of how this should work, sun paladin should give you some idea how to make a tanky melee/mage class and its the class rimelord is most at risk of becoming too similar to(we want unique playstyles for classes), and archmage will show you how ice ability's should work thematically.

and if you don't want to do that I'll just tell you my interpretation here, this tree is for charging up for more powerful ability's it shouldn't be good damage wise and ice is about defense, recovery, and setting up powerful combos not direct damage also the class will likely have other methods of building temperature that may be enough to fuel the direct damage ability's so the best way to keep this tree relevant would be to center it around debuffs and setting up combos so that if you shot all four of these at a foe before using an offensive ability they would take way more damage than if you just used the direct damage ability off the bat.

Blizzard
Willpower

Glaciate
Passive

The Rimelord becomes permanently coated in a thin layer of ice, gaining (25-125)HP. When damaged, the ice cracks and quickly begins to reform, giving(10-50%) healing mod for 5 turns.


Frozen Shell
Sustain
15 Temperature

Harden the layer of ice with focus, gaining X armour and +50% cold resistance(It'd be neat if this coldness didn't effect Temperature effect damage). However, this mystical ice is vulnerable to fire, and the Rimelord takes (+50%-+25%) more damage from fire attacks. Taking more then X% of the Rimelord's life in fire damage will cause Frozen Shell to melt, disabling the sustain, but giving +25-50%) fire resistance for X turns.


Crystal Fortress
Active
20 Temperature
Cooldown: 15

The armor of Frozen Shell becomes jagged and sharp. The Rimelord gains (20-60) armor, and (+15%-+40%) armor hardiness, but loses(50-25%) movement speed for 5-9 turns. During this time, the Rimelord is immune to movement effects.


Shroud of Winter
Sustain
Cooldown: 10
Generates 10 Temperature a turn

Summon a furious blizzard in range 3 around yourself. While the blizzard rages around you, gain +25% evasion, and enemies lose LoS. Enemies in the blizzard take 75% weapon damage as cold each turn, and any enemy who dies in the radius freezes, becoming an iceblock. The blizzard lasts 3 turns after the sustain is deactivated, costing no temperature during this time.

okay this is an improvement but still some really worrying stuff.
glaciate alright the general idea here is good but with it giving healmod whenever your damaged it will effectively be nearly constant in battle especially for a melee class a flat healmod boost would probably be a better idea but if your set on it boosting in battle could have it give healmod based on life lost or something.

frozen shell okay armour boosting and fire weakness are things that the class should have but as a melee class they will have alternate options for armour without the weakness in this. the fire weakness should be treated like solipsism is shoved in a free talent that you can't unlearn with some kind of benefit to make up for it. also look how ice armour boosting is done in wyrmic and that elemental surge prodigy to see what I think is missing here.

Crystal Fortress okay I don't see why you think this would be helpful on a massive Armour class with an armour boosting ability what you really need is an active defensive ability to block elemental damage thinking back I really should of highlighted the massive importance of blocking spell damage for a tanky class my bad.

Shroud of Winter okay attaching weapon damage to a talent like this is just asking for it to be over powered and its good defensively but not long term and its too expensive to leave on all the time leaving you vulnerable before combat and it will probably block your own line of sight overall making the ability more offensive than anything.

okay their is the beginnings of a good defensive tree here but this may not be the best tree to really have as a defensive tree I mean blizzard doesn't exactly envoke images of defense I really think you should make this a class trademark tree like solipsism is for solipsists make shroud of winter the passive unforgettable first talent in the tree giving the class its trademark endless blizzard and fire weakness with the rest of the talents either being utility's or boosters to blizzard to make it a truly fearsome storm.

also I have seen a magic based tree and a will base tree in your ideas so quick lesson on stat distribution just in case

important lesson on class stat distribution
in tome a character can only cap three and a half of the six different stats meaning classes need to keep their necessary stats to a max of three or give the class some way to compensate stats or the ability to ignore certain stats if their build doesn't need the ability's tied to that stat.

I will now list the stats and how to tell if their necessary

strength
strength is necessary for heavy armour and traditional melee weapon use for warrior classes

dexterity
for more agile classes who want to avoid damage in the first place and hit accurately for rougish classes

constitution
for gaining health, phys save and thick skin due to how important this is for surviving spells it should be considered a stat to cap unless the class has powerful not con or health based defensive ability's to compensate

magic
solely for powering abilitys of the magical nature if your not using magic just keep on walking

willpower
used for most stat based resources, powering mental powers and wild gifts necessary for all psionics and wilders but rarely necessary for mages

cunning
used for critical chance and mindpower generally for roguish classes and as a primary stat option for more caster(but not necessarily of the magic variety) classes

so yeah keep the above in mind we already have strength as a melee class, and haven't hammered out defense enough to drop constitution just yet.

so yeah one more point I should make beside stat management is magic and antimagic while it is possible to make magic work with nature and psionics due to the in game lore of strife between the users of these power sources it is heavily discouraged without some explanation of why the class in particular doesn't care about this conflict and it also comes with the stat management issue of working around both will and mag as necessary stats.

Frozen Aegis:

Crystalline Shield
Sustain
10 Temperature
Create a shield of pure ice. This shield is capable of blocking cold and physical damage, but will break if it blocks more then X damage in one attack(Scales up with temperature), disabling the sustain for (6-2) turns.

Using this skill with a shield adds the shield's block amount and blockable elements to the Crystalline Shield


Icy Focus
Passive

Level: 1 Shield gains the ability to cause Frigid Counterstrikes. This is similar to the regular Counterstrike in mechanic, but rather then extra damage, it instead stuns for a brief time
Level 2: By purifying the shield, Crystalline Shield can now block Lightning damage.
Level 3: The shield glimmers in the light, and can now block Darkness damage. Frigid Counterstrike stuns for 2 turns.
Level 4: The shield grows even colder, and can now block Fire damage. Frigid Counterstrike applies the Wet debuff.
Level 5: Cold is eternal. Your Crystalline Shield can now block Temporal damage. Frigid Counterstrike stuns for 3 turns.

looks like you split my unbreakable shield into two defensive trees and this is the shield half of it have to say your name for it is better, but its too powerful with the shield up constantly and the power boost from wearing a shield the class will own melee enemies in the early levels and late game with the block all elements with your shield prodigy mages won't be able to do shit to you I mean don't get me wrong its a step in the right direction but it needs a bit of rethinking.

also you should probably consider making the classes trademark defenses like ice shield and Armour all come from the same tree it makes thematic sense for those ability's to be in the same tree and gives you a good baseline defensive tree.

[NemesisZeru]

happy to know my advice is helping here's a few pointers on trouble spots in your latest ideas

Gathering Storm
Magic

Shivering Strike
Cooldown: 2
Generates 5 Temperature
Range: 1
Strike the target with a chilling strike, doing (50-300) damage as cold.

Frigid Wind
Cooldown: 3
Generates 10 Temperature
(Range would be similar to the Corruptor's Blood Spray at it’s lower levels, I’m thinking)
Blow an icy wind forward, dealing (30-200) damage as Cold in a radius X cone, and lowering the enemy's cold resistance by (5-25%) for 3 turns.

Rising Storm
Passive
Every melee hit does X cold damage, And has X% chance to freeze the enemy for (1-4) turns).
In addition, your mastery of iceblocks allows your damage to pierce them far more effectively, resulting in little damage to the iceblock itself, but considerable damage to the enemy(So it'd go from like 50% iceblock/50% target to like, 20% iceblock/50% target)

Frostbite
Cooldown: 5
Generates 3 Temperature a turn.
Range: 1
Infect a target with a deadly chill, slowing them by (10-30%) and doing (25-70) cold damage each turn, for 5 turns.

okay rather than being a temperature building spell tree this is more half that half melee tree all badly implemented.

with shivering strikes range it should be a melee ability with melee weapon scaling with what you have their a bump attack would almost always be a better option.
It should be, yeah, was just sorta experimenting with flat damage numbers, since I have no idea what's balanced for them.

frigid wind is a step in the right direction but that cooldown is way too low.
Yeah, Frigid Wind was the original quick builder before I moved Shivering Strike over. Cooldown probably needs to be upped

rising storm could use some work but it is definitely something the class should have just not in a spell based tree put it in a melee one.
Rising Storm's gone through a few variations. Originally it was 5 melee hits=freeze, then it was X spell casts caused the next melee attack to freeze, not this. I should note Gathering Storm isn't a spell tree entirely, so much as it's focused as a tree to build temperature in various ways.

frostbite eh good idea but the range and per turn temp gain bit need work.
I figured it should still be shortish range, but range 1 might be a bit too little. Maybe something like range 3? I'm trying to keep Rimelords relatively short ranged. As for the temp gain, would you say the temp gain needs to go down or up?

okay overall some good ideas here they just shouldn't be in here or need some work.

my suggestions for how to design the tree would be to look at archmage and the celestial classes anthorils light building offense tree should give you some general idea of how this should work, sun paladin should give you some idea how to make a tanky melee/mage class and its the class rimelord is most at risk of becoming too similar to(we want unique playstyles for classes), and archmage will show you how ice ability's should work thematically.

Problem with Archmages(And possibly Anthorils) as an example is that they're considerably higher ranged then what I want to do with Rimelords. All those defensive options don't mean as much when you're nuking things from 10 tiles away, y'know? If anything, they're supposed to be more akin to ice-themed Arcane blades who trade damage for CC(at least that was the originals idea

and if you don't want to do that I'll just tell you my interpretation here, this tree is for charging up for more powerful ability's it shouldn't be good damage wise and ice is about defense, recovery, and setting up powerful combos not direct damage also the class will likely have other methods of building temperature that may be enough to fuel the direct damage ability's so the best way to keep this tree relevant would be to center it around debuffs and setting up combos so that if you shot all four of these at a foe before using an offensive ability they would take way more damage than if you just used the direct damage ability off the bat.

Before I started experimenting with flat numbers, they weren't good damagewise.

Frigid Wind was something like 80% weapon damage, which is pretty weak, I feel. The way I see it, ice is about defense and cc, and to a lesser extent combos to make up for their low spamdamage. At the same time, I was afraid to make their main damage TOO low, for fear of making them bad. It's a number balance thing, really.

Blizzard
Willpower

Glaciate
Passive(Known at lvl.1)

The Rimelord becomes permanently coated in a thin layer of ice, gaining (25-125)HP. However, this mystical ice is weak to fire. 10% of all fire damage taken is deducted from Temperature. In addition, the duration of burns on the Rimelord is reduced by half(But still do the same amount of damage just in bigger ticks)

The temperature drain was suggested by the awesome Grayswandir. 10% might be too low, but I like the idea. Worried there might be too many penalties, though)

Frozen Shell
Sustain
15 Temperature

Harden the layer of ice with focus, gaining X armour and +50% cold resistance(It'd be neat if this coldness didn't effect Temperature effect damage). However, this mystical ice is vulnerable to fire, and the Rimelord takes (+50%-+25%) more damage from fire attacks. Taking more then X% of the Rimelord's life in fire damage will cause Frozen Shell to melt, disabling the sustain, but giving +25-50%) fire resistance for X turns.


Crystal Fortress
Active
20 Temperature
Cooldown: 15

The armor of Frozen Shell becomes jagged and sharp. The Rimelord gains (20-60) armor, and (+15%-+40%) armor hardiness, but loses(50-25%) movement speed for 5-9 turns. During this time, the Rimelord is immune to movement effects.


Shroud of Winter
Sustain
Cooldown: 10
Generates 10 Temperature a turn

Summon a furious blizzard in range 3 around yourself. While the blizzard rages around you, gain +25% evasion, and enemies lose LoS. Enemies in the blizzard take 75% weapon damage as cold each turn, and any enemy who dies in the radius freezes, becoming an iceblock. The blizzard lasts 3 turns after the sustain is deactivated, costing no temperature during this time.

okay this is an improvement but still some really worrying stuff.
glaciate alright the general idea here is good but with it giving healmod whenever your damaged it will effectively be nearly constant in battle especially for a melee class a flat healmod boost would probably be a better idea but if your set on it boosting in battle could have it give healmod based on life lost or something.

Well, themewise, I was explaining the healmod boost as the ice reforming, but I'll admit it's not the best of things to get across that point. Could use some work

frozen shell okay armour boosting and fire weakness are things that the class should have but as a melee class they will have alternate options for armour without the weakness in this. the fire weakness should be treated like solipsism is shoved in a free talent that you can't unlearn with some kind of benefit to make up for it. also look how ice armour boosting is done in wyrmic and that elemental surge prodigy to see what I think is missing here.

Well, the benefit itself is the armour boost. The armour boost would be pretty strong to counteract the fire weakness, and you can always turn it off if needed. Shoving it into a free talent you can't unlearn seems kinda harsh, since -50% fire resistance is pretty crippling on it's own.

Crystal Fortress okay I don't see why you think this would be helpful on a massive Armour class with an armour boosting ability what you really need is an active defensive ability to block elemental damage thinking back I really should of highlighted the massive importance of blocking spell damage for a tanky class my bad.

Could easily be switched to sort of elemental defense. Armour just seemed more thematic initially.

Shroud of Winter okay attaching weapon damage to a talent like this is just asking for it to be over powered and its good defensively but not long term and its too expensive to leave on all the time leaving you vulnerable before combat and it will probably block your own line of sight overall making the ability more offensive than anything.

Never got around to tweaking Shroud of Winter's damage numbers. It's just reposted from earlier(when everything was % numbers for general "X is stronger then Y" balancing). Need to tweak it, just haven't found any similar skills to get an idea of damage numbers from.

okay their is the beginnings of a good defensive tree here but this may not be the best tree to really have as a defensive tree I mean blizzard doesn't exactly envoke images of defense I really think you should make this a class trademark tree like solipsism is for solipsists make shroud of winter the passive unforgettable first talent in the tree giving the class its trademark endless blizzard and fire weakness with the rest of the talents either being utility's or boosters to blizzard to make it a truly fearsome storm.

also I have seen a magic based tree and a will base tree in your ideas so quick lesson on stat distribution just in case

important lesson on class stat distribution
in tome a character can only cap three and a half of the six different stats meaning classes need to keep their necessary stats to a max of three or give the class some way to compensate stats or the ability to ignore certain stats if their build doesn't need the ability's tied to that stat.

I will now list the stats and how to tell if their necessary

strength
strength is necessary for heavy armour and traditional melee weapon use for warrior classes

dexterity
for more agile classes who want to avoid damage in the first place and hit accurately for rougish classes

constitution
for gaining health, phys save and thick skin due to how important this is for surviving spells it should be considered a stat to cap unless the class has powerful not con or health based defensive ability's to compensate

magic
solely for powering abilitys of the magical nature if your not using magic just keep on walking

willpower
used for most stat based resources(Like Temperature, perhaps?), powering mental powers and wild gifts necessary for all psionics and wilders but rarely necessary for mages

cunning
used for critical chance and mindpower generally for roguish classes and as a primary stat option for more caster(but not necessarily of the magic variety) classes

so yeah keep the above in mind we already have strength as a melee class, and haven't hammered out defense enough to drop constitution just yet.

so yeah one more point I should make beside stat management is magic and antimagic while it is possible to make magic work with nature and psionics due to the in game lore of strife between the users of these power sources it is heavily discouraged without some explanation of why the class in particular doesn't care about this conflict and it also comes with the stat management issue of working around both will and mag as necessary stats.

I have noooo idea what you meant here. What does antimagic have to do with this? The class is magical in nature(minus some musing in the initial posts of the topic. Change my mind there.) That said, Paradox Mages use both magic and willpower last I checked(for a similar reason: Rimelord uses willpower to for temperature, PMs for Paradox. Several other classes have willpower as a secondary, too, since it effects resources), so I don't think it's TOO weird. In theory, Con COULD work for temperature stuff in place of Willpower, but I don't think it's a huge issue.

Frozen Aegis:

Crystalline Shield
Sustain
10 Temperature
Create a shield of pure ice. This shield is capable of blocking cold and physical damage, but will break if it blocks more then X damage in one attack(Scales up with temperature), disabling the sustain for (6-2) turns.

Using this skill with a shield adds the shield's block amount and blockable elements to the Crystalline Shield


Icy Focus
Passive

Level: 1 Shield gains the ability to cause Frigid Counterstrikes. This is similar to the regular Counterstrike in mechanic, but rather then extra damage, it instead stuns for a brief time
Level 2: By purifying the shield, Crystalline Shield can now block Lightning damage.
Level 3: The shield glimmers in the light, and can now block Darkness damage. Frigid Counterstrike stuns for 2 turns.
Level 4: The shield grows even colder, and can now block Fire damage. Frigid Counterstrike applies the Wet debuff.
Level 5: Cold is eternal. Your Crystalline Shield can now block Temporal damage. Frigid Counterstrike stuns for 3 turns.

looks like you split my unbreakable shield into two defensive trees and this is the shield half of it have to say your name for it is better, but its too powerful with the shield up constantly and the power boost from wearing a shield the class will own melee enemies in the early levels and late game with the block all elements with your shield prodigy mages won't be able to do shit to you I mean don't get me wrong its a step in the right direction but it needs a bit of rethinking.

also you should probably consider making the classes trademark defenses like ice shield and Armour all come from the same tree it makes thematic sense for those ability's to be in the same tree and gives you a good baseline defensive tree.

Quite possibly, tree just felt like it had potential. That said, the shield isn't up constantly as anything more then a decent amount of damage will break it and put it on cooldown. Block numbers would be like, half a regular shield's, so it'd break pretty often to big hits, and to quick smaller attacks.

[astreoth]

alright I get how you say the purposes of the trees are different than what I thought I was going off of the sample trees and their general ideas now for more direct responses.

gathering storm
okay the tree does make more sense as an intentional melee/casting combo temp builder and I can appreciate the short range thematic but that doesn't stop you from getting an idea of how ice should work thematically from archmage or get an idea on how a resource building offensive tree should work from anthoril.

alright dude theirs a few proposals for powerful ice ability's that can send temperature out of control and this tree as a resource builder can't be too good for direct damage that gives the possibility of putting this tree in the precarious position of just being ignored entirely in favor of more direct damage ability's.

so in order to make this tree good it needs to bring something to the table other than direct damage or resource building and you said it yourself crowd control, and combos, short range ability's that can hit a lot of foes and status's are probably the way to go here.
also for melee range talents you can make them a bit better than a bump attack as long as theirs stronger talents in the direct damage tree.

Blizzard
okay for frozen shell. yeah this is basically a trade off of getting good melee resistance in exchange for a crippling fire weakness, and could easily end up being more trouble than its worth fire is a very common caster element, and with a weakness like this the talent could be suicide.

it isn't too uncommon for sudden fireballs from nowhere in the early levels, and with a sustain and forget talent effective for most enemies that you can handle anyways that makes that fire mage you just walked into a one hit death before you can do anything. this talent could be more a source of rage, hatred, and purposeful avoidance than anything else especially next to the OP melee defense of your ice shield.

ice Armour is too much of a thematic must have for it to be such a do not want talent I can appreciate being able to turn it off, but if the fire weakness really needs to be thematic, it shouldn't be avoidable or suicidal make it less bad/offset the bad to weakening your powers more and or give methods of overcoming it and put it in a unforgettable learned at start talent.

lesson on stat distribution
okay I didn't know exactly how you were powering the class, and the stat distribution you were proposing was a bit worrying so that's why I put that there.
anyway willpower is either a primary stat for mindpower based class or a secondary one for a magical caster class that can afford to invest in improving its casting ability's as a magic based melee hybrid class you should aim for a str, con, mag stat distribution.
anymore than three necessary stats for a class means you need to code up an ability to let you use the three most important stats to power the additional ones and there is no thematic reason for this class to need more than three stats.

also the temperature resource has a fixed cap the only way will could affect it would be to either lower the amounts gained / used by ability's and or reduce the negative effects of the resource and the effects of will on temperature would be better explored by a pure caster class with the resource.

frozen aegis
okay your neglecting how a shield amps the block power up to 1.5 times shield strength that is easily enough to make most if not all early game melee enemies completely harmless, and late game artifact shields range from about 250 - 300 meaning it could take more than 450 damage to even scratch you late game(possibly more with temp scaling), and that's how much it can block per attack not turn attack this thing would make you indestructible to all but the most powerful foes.
and even then it'll take some pretty good spike damage for what two turns of vulnerability that they wouldn't even get if you had eternal guard up this is just insanely op.

and lets not forget that this talent would give you massive incentive to just ignore the ice Armour talent and its fire weakness. seriously I could get behind spiking defense up high momentarily but this is just really bad design I just can't say it any other way you would be immune to all but the most powerful of melee talents late game mages wouldn't be able to do squat once block all elements prodigy was up and with eternal guard even if they did get through they would be stunned until your shield was back up.

yeah this just should not be a constant level of defense.

overall this is getting better but some major pitfalls you want to avoid so to recap my advice

rising storm can be better than bump attacks but it should bring more to the table than temp generation and damage.

take the F*****G debuff out of the ice armour talent and put it where it can't be avoided but it isn't fatal maybe tie it into the ice resistance talent so you have the choice of taking more self damage or hostile fire damage or properly manage temp and avoid both.

blizzard is a horrible name for a defensive tree consider renaming it or moving the ice Armour stuff elsewhere.

try radiance for blizzard and work from that.

rimelord doesn't need more than three stats/no will allowed.

its okay to spike Crystalline Shield defense that high or higher but having that constantly is just all kinds of bad.

figure out the theme of the class and work from there.

don't mean to be an asshole but its better to get stuff like this out in the planning phase than find out you wasted a ton of coding hours on broken stuff.

for temp gain and use the amounts gained and used should complement each other so one builder can power an equal power user, the amounts should be based on how much you want them to be able to build up working with a set resource cap here

[NemesisZeru]

alright I get how you say the purposes of the trees are different than what I thought I was going off of the sample trees and their general ideas now for more direct responses.

gathering storm
okay the tree does make more sense as an intentional melee/casting combo temp builder and I can appreciate the short range thematic but that doesn't stop you from getting an idea of how ice should work thematically from archmage or get an idea on how a resource building offensive tree should work from anthoril.

alright dude theirs a few proposals for powerful ice ability's that can send temperature out of control and this tree as a resource builder can't be too good for direct damage that gives the possibility of putting this tree in the precarious position of just being ignored entirely in favor of more direct damage ability's. Except you can't exactly ignore it, otherwise you won't be able to cast the high damage skills of the class, though. I mean, there probably needs to be more incentive to max them, sure, but you can't go entirely without them.

so in order to make this tree good it needs to bring something to the table other than direct damage or resource building and you said it yourself crowd control, and combos, short range ability's that can hit a lot of foes and status's are probably the way to go here.
also for melee range talents you can make them a bit better than a bump attack as long as theirs stronger talents in the direct damage tree.

Blizzard
okay for frozen shell. yeah this is basically a trade off of getting good melee resistance in exchange for a crippling fire weakness, and could easily end up being more trouble than its worth fire is a very common caster element, and with a weakness like this the talent could be suicide.

Hence why the option to turn it off exists in the form of it being a sustain. Having the fire weakness be a forced passive like Solipsim(like you suggested like, last post) would just be waaay too crippling to the class's viablilty on the whole).

it isn't too uncommon for sudden fireballs from nowhere in the early levels, and with a sustain and forget talent effective for most enemies that you can handle anyways that makes that fire mage you just walked into a one hit death before you can do anything. this talent could be more a source of rage, hatred, and purposeful avoidance than anything else especially next to the OP melee defense of your ice shield.

ice Armour is too much of a thematic must have for it to be such a do not want talent I can appreciate being able to turn it off, but if the fire weakness really needs to be thematic, it shouldn't be avoidable or suicidal make it less bad/offset the bad to weakening your powers more and or give methods of overcoming it and put it in a unforgettable learned at start talent.

...What? You say the fire weakness can be really bad, yet you advocate forcing it onto all players? Wouldn't that just make the class weak? I actually tweaked Glaciate to give it a fire weakness of sorts(That is indeed unforgettable), just not a crippling one(hopefully). I quoted it in my last post, so lemme know what you think.

lesson on stat distribution
okay I didn't know exactly how you were powering the class, and the stat distribution you were proposing was a bit worrying so that's why I put that there.
anyway willpower is either a primary stat for mindpower based class or a secondary one for a magical caster class that can afford to invest in improving its casting ability's as a magic based melee hybrid class you should aim for a str, con, mag stat distribution.
anymore than three necessary stats for a class means you need to code up an ability to let you use the three most important stats to power the additional ones and there is no thematic reason for this class to need more than three stats.

also the temperature resource has a fixed cap the only way will could affect it would be to either lower the amounts gained / used by ability's and or reduce the negative effects of the resource and the effects of will on temperature would be better explored by a pure caster class with the resource.

There's no real class that uses Con as a core stat, though, is there? There's a few trees, and most classes generally, but usually Con is the sorta tertiary stat, not a primary. Hell, when I asked about it on the IRC, it was said the gains from Con were...meh. And looking back, when Con is +4 hp a point, I'm sorta inclined to agree with them.

Willpower seems to make more sense since it governs all resources(As far as I recall), while tying Temperature into Con might be...weird. It's not an entirely out there idea, I'd just have to get some secondary opinions on it.

That said, the Temperature system is VERY basic currently, and thus Temperature gains/costs and the like aren't final.

frozen aegis
okay your neglecting how a shield amps the block power up to 1.5 times shield strength that is easily enough to make most if not all early game melee enemies completely harmless, and late game artifact shields range from about 250 - 300 meaning it could take more than 450 damage to even scratch you late game(possibly more with temp scaling), and that's how much it can block per attack not turn attack this thing would make you indestructible to all but the most powerful foes.
and even then it'll take some pretty good spike damage for what two turns of vulnerability that they wouldn't even get if you had eternal guard up this is just insanely op.

Well, the original intent that was the C.Shield block would still be separate, in a sense.

Like, let's say you get hit by a 600 damage attack. Your shield has 400 block chance, and C.Shield 200(These aren't final numbers. C.Shield would probably be considerably lower. Never gave actual numbers since it'd be hard to tune ). The C.S would take the first 200 damage and break, while the shield would block the remaining 400. Does that make any more sense? You'd still block one hit at a higher block then normal, but it'd break and then there'd be a decent cooldown period before you can do that again, and even then, it'd just break again.

That said, the cooldown probably needs to be increased, yeah. Something like 5 turns or so would probably be better.

and lets not forget that this talent would give you massive incentive to just ignore the ice Armour talent and its fire weakness. seriously I could get behind spiking defense up high momentarily but this is just really bad design I just can't say it any other way you would be immune to all but the most powerful of melee talents late game mages wouldn't be able to do squat once block all elements prodigy was up and with eternal guard even if they did get through they would be stunned until your shield was back up.

yeah this just should not be a constant level of defense.

overall this is getting better but some major pitfalls you want to avoid so to recap my advice

rising storm can be better than bump attacks but it should bring more to the table than temp generation and damage.
And it is? Wind is a cold damage debuff, Frostbite slows, etc. Probably needs a similar effect on Shivering Strike, but still working on that one.

take the F*****G debuff out of the ice armour talent and put it where it can't be avoided but it isn't fatal maybe tie it into the ice resistance talent so you have the choice of taking more self damage or hostile fire damage or properly manage temp and avoid both.
Already tried giving some fire weaknesses to Glaciate. But putting +50% fire damage taken as an unavoidable talent? Yeah, no.


blizzard is a horrible name for a defensive tree consider renaming it or moving the ice Armour stuff elsewhere.
Well, it's mostly named Blizzard because of the original skills in the tree, as well as the capstone skill(Shroud of Winter, a literal Blizzard). Now that the tree's changed, the name should probably change as well.

try radiance for blizzard and work from that.
Possibly. Those sort of effects are already baked into the Temperature mechanic, though.

rimelord doesn't need more than three stats/no will allowed.
Like I said before, no class has Con as a main stat, Willpower fits thematically, and the gains from Con are iffy anyways(Max Glacial is like, 30 points of Con, alleviating the need to boost it for a good long while, while putting points into str for weapons, magic for damage and willpower for temperature).

If you don't think Willpower fits, sure, that's fine(And it's a pretty decent argument that I'm trying to get additional opinions on.), but saying it simply -Isn't allowed- just seems kinda rude to me.

its okay to spike Crystalline Shield defense that high or higher but having that constantly is just all kinds of bad.
Again, any sort of numbers on Crystalline Shield are far from final. Was just sorta a neat concept. Probably not the most balanced of things, I'll admit.


figure out the theme of the class and work from there.
The class already has a theme, though. Short ranged tanky mage who uses CC and temperature generators to build up to their strong 'finishing' spells. They've been pretty much like that since Day 1. Stuff needs to be tweaked, sure, but the theme of the class has existed since the topic began, pretty much(Nothing really changed except rolling some Rimelord skills like Shroud into the original Gelid concept)

Not all the talents fall in line with this, sure, but was also trying to give some ways to vary in playstyle, and well...designing skills isn't the easiest of things. Some are bound to be duds

don't mean to be an asshole but its better to get stuff like this out in the planning phase than find out you wasted a ton of coding hours on broken stuff.

for temp gain and use the amounts gained and used should complement each other so one builder can power an equal power user, the amounts should be based on how much you want them to be able to build up working with a set resource cap here
Yeah, the numbers need to be tweaked. Just gotta work on the Temperature system first. Forger101 is working on how it'd work codingwise, and from there the gains/costs will be balanced accordingly.

For now, I'm just waiting for the basic Temperature system to be coded up before I proceed, so relax~

[Forger101]

Yeah I'm still working on the new resource. I've been busy with real life, so I haven't had much time to work on it.

Don't worry about numbers at all during the planning phase. Most things will have to be adjusted anyways. I will say this though, avoid weakness to fire as it is a common damage type that has high damage.

[astreoth]

yeah okay response again.

alright dude theirs a few proposals for powerful ice ability's that can send temperature out of control and this tree as a resource builder can't be too good for direct damage that gives the possibility of putting this tree in the precarious position of just being ignored entirely in favor of more direct damage ability's. Except you can't exactly ignore it, otherwise you won't be able to cast the high damage skills of the class, though. I mean, there probably needs to be more incentive to max them, sure, but you can't go entirely without them.

yeah if this is the classes only way to generate temperature than sure your right what I'm saying is if you give the class alternate methods of temp generation they could just ignore this tree entirely since they will be able to get the temperature to power their stronger ability's elsewhere so you can either makes this good or give it a monopoly on the resource.

Hence why the option to turn it off exists in the form of it being a sustain. Having the fire weakness be a forced passive like Solipsim(like you suggested like, last post) would just be waaay too crippling to the class's viablilty on the whole).

it isn't too uncommon for sudden fireballs from nowhere in the early levels, and with a sustain and forget talent effective for most enemies that you can handle anyways that makes that fire mage you just walked into a one hit death before you can do anything. this talent could be more a source of rage, hatred, and purposeful avoidance than anything else especially next to the OP melee defense of your ice shield.

ice Armour is too much of a thematic must have for it to be such a do not want talent I can appreciate being able to turn it off, but if the fire weakness really needs to be thematic, it shouldn't be avoidable or suicidal make it less bad/offset the bad to weakening your powers more and or give methods of overcoming it and put it in a unforgettable learned at start talent.

...What? You say the fire weakness can be really bad, yet you advocate forcing it onto all players? Wouldn't that just make the class weak? I actually tweaked Glaciate to give it a fire weakness of sorts(That is indeed unforgettable), just not a crippling one(hopefully). I quoted it in my last post, so lemme know what you think.

yeah I said to shove the entire weakness there if it really needed to thematically be on the class with the bit already in glaciate just removing this weakness entirely would fit the bill of what I said. this weakness is ruining a good talent and the only way to make it work is to make it unavoidable and not suicidal and heck might be good to just drop it as a thematic requirement of the class entirely.

There's no real class that uses Con as a core stat, though, is there? There's a few trees, and most classes generally, but usually Con is the sorta tertiary stat, not a primary. Hell, when I asked about it on the IRC, it was said the gains from Con were...meh. And looking back, when Con is +4 hp a point, I'm sorta inclined to agree with them.

Willpower seems to make more sense since it governs all resources(As far as I recall), while tying Temperature into Con might be...weird. It's not an entirely out there idea, I'd just have to get some secondary opinions on it.

That said, the Temperature system is VERY basic currently, and thus Temperature gains/costs and the like aren't final.

okay it may only be worth 200hp but it also gives thick skin which combined with a high hp bar makes up the basis of most classes mage defense strategy.

that lesson was more about keeping the class to three stats than anything else as designer of the class you could remove con for will but not all melee hybrid classes go that far for their casting ability's and you'd need to compensate for that 200hp and 15% or so resist all that the class would lose out on.

Well, the original intent that was the C.Shield block would still be separate, in a sense.

Like, let's say you get hit by a 600 damage attack. Your shield has 400 block chance, and C.Shield 200(These aren't final numbers. C.Shield would probably be considerably lower. Never gave actual numbers since it'd be hard to tune ). The C.S would take the first 200 damage and break, while the shield would block the remaining 400. Does that make any more sense? You'd still block one hit at a higher block then normal, but it'd break and then there'd be a decent cooldown period before you can do that again, and even then, it'd just break again.

That said, the cooldown probably needs to be increased, yeah. Something like 5 turns or so would probably be better.

yeah the talent description said equipped shields would add to its power and the class is based on on in game lore about people with unbreakable shields it'd make much more sense for the class to have an insanely powerful active block ability and good baseline defense than this.
and how often do you think 600 damage melee hits are, plus if this thing really does break as often as you say it should than its some some pretty shoddy spell defense.

rimelord doesn't need more than three stats/no will allowed.
Like I said before, no class has Con as a main stat, Willpower fits thematically, and the gains from Con are iffy anyways(Max Glacial is like, 30 points of Con, alleviating the need to boost it for a good long while, while putting points into str for weapons, magic for damage and willpower for temperature).

If you don't think Willpower fits, sure, that's fine(And it's a pretty decent argument that I'm trying to get additional opinions on.), but saying it simply -Isn't allowed- just seems kinda rude to me.

I said it wasn't allowed because having more than three stats on this class would be way more trouble than its worth also your forgetting about thick skin you can go will if you want but your defense needs to make up for thick skin first.
also I have no argument against will powering up temperature I do think that as a melee hybrid class you shouldn't be investing that heavily into casting but that's more a suggestion as long as defense is good.

also wait until the guy making temperature finishes the mechanic to see if will effects it before building trees around it.

okay one more thing how does adding ice damage and freeze chance to attacks help build temperature?

alright I've said all I needed to.

[NemesisZeru]

yeah okay response again.

alright dude theirs a few proposals for powerful ice ability's that can send temperature out of control and this tree as a resource builder can't be too good for direct damage that gives the possibility of putting this tree in the precarious position of just being ignored entirely in favor of more direct damage ability's. Except you can't exactly ignore it, otherwise you won't be able to cast the high damage skills of the class, though. I mean, there probably needs to be more incentive to max them, sure, but you can't go entirely without them.

yeah if this is the classes only way to generate temperature than sure your right what I'm saying is if you give the class alternate methods of temp generation they could just ignore this tree entirely since they will be able to get the temperature to power their stronger ability's elsewhere so you can either makes this good or give it a monopoly on the resource.

Except I wasn't really planning on them having tons of generation methods elsewhere. Maybe something here or there, but Gathering Storm would be the most efficient way to build it up. It's a bit monopolized, sure, but decentralizing temperature generation too much might make things a little confusing

Hence why the option to turn it off exists in the form of it being a sustain. Having the fire weakness be a forced passive like Solipsim(like you suggested like, last post) would just be waaay too crippling to the class's viablilty on the whole).

it isn't too uncommon for sudden fireballs from nowhere in the early levels, and with a sustain and forget talent effective for most enemies that you can handle anyways that makes that fire mage you just walked into a one hit death before you can do anything. this talent could be more a source of rage, hatred, and purposeful avoidance than anything else especially next to the OP melee defense of your ice shield.

ice Armour is too much of a thematic must have for it to be such a do not want talent I can appreciate being able to turn it off, but if the fire weakness really needs to be thematic, it shouldn't be avoidable or suicidal make it less bad/offset the bad to weakening your powers more and or give methods of overcoming it and put it in a unforgettable learned at start talent.

...What? You say the fire weakness can be really bad, yet you advocate forcing it onto all players? Wouldn't that just make the class weak? I actually tweaked Glaciate to give it a fire weakness of sorts(That is indeed unforgettable), just not a crippling one(hopefully). I quoted it in my last post, so lemme know what you think.

yeah I said to shove the entire weakness there if it really needed to thematically be on the class with the bit already in glaciate just removing this weakness entirely would fit the bill of what I said. this weakness is ruining a good talent and the only way to make it work is to make it unavoidable and not suicidal and heck might be good to just drop it as a thematic requirement of the class entirely.

Yeah. Was an interesting idea, but might be best to drop the raw fire weakness. I sorta like fire effecting Temperature meter, though.

There's no real class that uses Con as a core stat, though, is there? There's a few trees, and most classes generally, but usually Con is the sorta tertiary stat, not a primary. Hell, when I asked about it on the IRC, it was said the gains from Con were...meh. And looking back, when Con is +4 hp a point, I'm sorta inclined to agree with them.

Willpower seems to make more sense since it governs all resources(As far as I recall), while tying Temperature into Con might be...weird. It's not an entirely out there idea, I'd just have to get some secondary opinions on it.

That said, the Temperature system is VERY basic currently, and thus Temperature gains/costs and the like aren't final.

okay it may only be worth 200hp but it also gives thick skin which combined with a high hp bar makes up the basis of most classes mage defense strategy.

that lesson was more about keeping the class to three stats than anything else as designer of the class you could remove con for will but not all melee hybrid classes go that far for their casting ability's and you'd need to compensate for that 200hp and 15% or so resist all that the class would lose out on.

I'm told lots of classes just use items for Thick Skin. Not really the end of the world.

Well, the original intent that was the C.Shield block would still be separate, in a sense.

Like, let's say you get hit by a 600 damage attack. Your shield has 400 block chance, and C.Shield 200(These aren't final numbers. C.Shield would probably be considerably lower. Never gave actual numbers since it'd be hard to tune ). The C.S would take the first 200 damage and break, while the shield would block the remaining 400. Does that make any more sense? You'd still block one hit at a higher block then normal, but it'd break and then there'd be a decent cooldown period before you can do that again, and even then, it'd just break again.

That said, the cooldown probably needs to be increased, yeah. Something like 5 turns or so would probably be better.

yeah the talent description said equipped shields would add to its power and the class is based on on in game lore about people with unbreakable shields it'd make much more sense for the class to have an insanely powerful active block ability and good baseline defense than this.
and how often do you think 600 damage melee hits are, plus if this thing really does break as often as you say it should than its some some pretty shoddy spell defense.

600 was a very crude example. Don't take it as anywhere near an actual number for the skill.

rimelord doesn't need more than three stats/no will allowed.
Like I said before, no class has Con as a main stat, Willpower fits thematically, and the gains from Con are iffy anyways(Max Glacial is like, 30 points of Con, alleviating the need to boost it for a good long while, while putting points into str for weapons, magic for damage and willpower for temperature).

If you don't think Willpower fits, sure, that's fine(And it's a pretty decent argument that I'm trying to get additional opinions on.), but saying it simply -Isn't allowed- just seems kinda rude to me.

I said it wasn't allowed because having more than three stats on this class would be way more trouble than its worth also your forgetting about thick skin you can go will if you want but your defense needs to make up for thick skin first.
also I have no argument against will powering up temperature I do think that as a melee hybrid class you shouldn't be investing that heavily into casting but that's more a suggestion as long as defense is good.

Well, the way I see it, str and magic are the REAL CORES, with putting willpower into skills as you need them, likewise with con. Pumping con every level isn't really something anyone does, y'know?

also wait until the guy making temperature finishes the mechanic to see if will effects it before building trees around it.

Was just throwing out concepts and general ideas now and again, since I didn't want to give the impression the topic had died.

okay one more thing how does adding ice damage and freeze chance to attacks help build temperature?

It doesn't, exactly, but it was there because it was a cool idea and it relatively fit the tree.

alright I've said all I needed to.

Yeah I'm still working on the new resource. I've been busy with real life, so I haven't had much time to work on it.

Don't worry about numbers at all during the planning phase. Most things will have to be adjusted anyways. I will say this though, avoid weakness to fire as it is a common damage type that has high damage.

Yep. Exactly.

Raw weakness to fire is defintely going to be removed, in favor of fire damage negatively effecting Temperature(maybe. Might be tricky to code?)

[astreoth]

alright then I've got nothing more to say anything I could point out you seem to already be aware of and general direction of the class as a whole seems good. so I'll just save it till next time you post ideas.

[NemesisZeru]

Just bumping to let everyone know this is still being worked on. x3

[NemesisZeru]

This is still being worked on. Once the Temperature mechanic gets worked out, then the fun stuff with skills and stuff start. :3

Had some skill ideas I'm jotting down(if only to make this less of an overt bump.)


Icy Road
Cooldown whatever
Range whatever

Create a path of ice. The Rimelord moves X% faster on the ice, while enemies who move on to the path of ice move x% slower.


And another

Ice Thorns
Sustain

Cover yourself in icy thorns, gaining a defensive benefit of sorts. Deactivating the sustain launches the thorns out, dealing cold damage and bleed to enemies in radius X around the Rimelord.

Iunno, just a silly idea I had. Not being able to sleep does weird things to my head. I'm not even sure if Rimelords should have good mobility or not. I think low mobility is a decent tradeoff to a (hopefully eventually) tanky class.

[Planetus]

I've only skimmed this thread, but I noticed a notion to tie some categories to Strength to encourage the class to use 2-handed weapons instead of just going staff, and I've got an idea that would make that unnecessary: give a boost of some kind (maybe Temperature resource generation, or maybe the effects of it, or whatever) whenever the character is using a metal weapon. That could be tied to just swords/axes/daggers/etc. or to exclude staves/mindstars/whips/etc. The reasoning behind this is that metal channels heat (and thus cold) MUCH better than anything else. Stones and crystals hold it well, but don't channel it that incredibly (slow to heat up, slow to cool down, but give off a LOT over enough time). Wood actually insulates, and does so rather well. Because of this, wooden staves could actually be seen as interfering with the effects of their spells (and also possibly leather armor). Maybe mindstars, being stones, could be seen as increasing the cap of Temperature, or something, or just simplified to be lumped into the staves. Metal everything, though, could give a boost.

[NemesisZeru]

I've only skimmed this thread, but I noticed a notion to tie some categories to Strength to encourage the class to use 2-handed weapons instead of just going staff, and I've got an idea that would make that unnecessary: give a boost of some kind (maybe Temperature resource generation, or maybe the effects of it, or whatever) whenever the character is using a metal weapon. That could be tied to just swords/axes/daggers/etc. or to exclude staves/mindstars/whips/etc. The reasoning behind this is that metal channels heat (and thus cold) MUCH better than anything else. Stones and crystals hold it well, but don't channel it that incredibly (slow to heat up, slow to cool down, but give off a LOT over enough time). Wood actually insulates, and does so rather well. Because of this, wooden staves could actually be seen as interfering with the effects of their spells (and also possibly leather armor). Maybe mindstars, being stones, could be seen as increasing the cap of Temperature, or something, or just simplified to be lumped into the staves. Metal everything, though, could give a boost.

I only recently found out ToME even distinguishes between metal and non-metal weapons, so that wasn't originally in the plans.

I like this idea, though. Just not sure how complicated the required checks would be. :3

[Sradac]

I like that idea. I can see a Crimelord having more potent powers because they aren't swinging a slightly cold hunk of wood at someone, but a biting, frozen blade.

You can check HousePets druid addon, they get bonus's when using wood / leather. Probably use that as a base but for the opposite.

Crimelord