Comprehensive Mindslayer rework

[supermini]

It's mostly a problem caused by stat requirements (for weapon mastery). I can't see an easy solution to that.

[Doctornull]

One solution is to expect both hands to hold mindstars, and have the class acknowledge that it's a a dual mindstar + TK slot (weapon, gem, mindstar) class.

That's still more interesting than the old Mindslayer which was dual mindstar + TK slot (mindstar).

Obviously you'd need to do something for undead who can't learn Mindstar Mastery, but that's still more interesting than Augmentation IMHO.

[donkatsu]

Make Augmentation an activated self-buff with a long cooldown and short duration, with much higher base values and much less scaling. It's a patchwork solution that is clearly meant for cheesing Weapon Mastery, but it's better than nothing. And current Augmentation is more or less nothing, so...

[Melkhior]

Why not change augmentation in passive with same function as Weapon mastery, but instaed of strenght and dexterity weapons will use will and cunning? and weapons use mental power instead of physical power

New Augmentaion: Mindslayer's main weapon use willpower and cunning instead of strenght a dexterity. It also ingreases damage by x% when using maces, swords and axes and increases mental power by x

[Suslik]

Why not change augmentation in passive with same function as Weapon mastery, but instaed of strenght and dexterity weapons will use will and cunning? and weapons use mental power instead of physical power

New Augmentaion: Mindslayer's main weapon use willpower and cunning instead of strenght a dexterity. It also ingreases damage by x% when using maces, swords and axes and increases mental power by x

even though i don't mind how augmentation currently works and with some skill juggling how it helps to get heavy armor and 50str/50dex prodigies, this suggestion looks very interesting indeed

[Melkhior]

Yes, that also worries me, maybe why not on level 3 augmentation allow wearing heavy armour and on level 6 massive armour ?

[Suslik]

Yes, that also worries me, maybe why not on level 3 augmentation allow wearing heavy armour and on level 6 massive armour ?

well apparently that's gonna take twice less skill points to max both armor and weapon mastery that way.
actually on the other hand let's read the initial complain:

See, the problem I'm having with building a melee Mindslayer is that you never want to drop a stat point in Strength because Strength doesn't really do anything for you, but it is required for Weapon Mastery. Which means that either I'm encouraged to juggle points so that I'm a caster mindslayer in the early game until I get enough +Str gear to fill out my Weapon Mastery (not to mention melee sucks in the early game anyway), or just sink points into Strength knowing that those stat points are wasted in the long run. I mean, I could see others viewing this as an interesting dilemma, but to me it just feels awkward.

so if the problem is that you have to wait until the point you switch from being a caster to being melee is.. really a problem? first of all, as the author said melee sucks in the early game anyway and even if you were able to invest points in will-based version of weapon mastery that's gonna suck compared to juggling points into 4 caster talents(because that's the reason they've introduced juggling in the first place). secondly, being a melee you're going to invest to auras, so why not use their spiking until melee becomes viable? and yes, auras do need some kind of spiking debuff on level 3 or increased damage to be viable compared to castery talents.

unfortunately I cannot concur with donkatsu on this proposal since the problem with being too lazy to juggle 4 early points into melee later and refusing to use aura spiking is probably player's fault, not design's.

[Melkhior]

True. I dont mind, how augmentation works now. But I understand that meelee mindslayer is little bit weird, because all his meelee attacks use willpower and cunning, but his main weapon use strenght and dexterity. Maybe make augmentation as I proposed, but with some disadvantage.

Or maybe add posibility to wear heavy armor to frensied focus (on level 3?), but only when mindslayer use telekinetically wielded weapon? edit - but this isn't really good solution waiting to level 12 (15) to get access to heavy armour

[Suslik]

True. I dont mind, how augmentation works now. But I understand that meelee mindslayer is little bit weird, because all his meelee attacks use willpower and cunning, but his main weapon use strenght and dexterity. Maybe make augmentation as I proposed, but with some disadvantage.

Or maybe add posibility to wear heavy armor to frensied focus (on level 3?), but only when mindslayer use telekinetically wielded weapon?

exactly the same problem is with wyrmics: going mindstars makes their will talents synergetic with weapon while going conventional weapons synergises only with breaths. while solution to wyrimic may be to make them scale with max(willpower, physical power), that's not gonna work for mindslayers because building str will be too viable.

[Melkhior]

Yeah, true. Like I said I really don't mind how Augmentation works now. It only contradict with DarkGod's claim, that mindslayer is willpower/cunning class, because as meelee you need strenght to use weapons.

[donkatsu]

It's not really a problem, just awkward design. It combines two mechanics that are both clearly unintended: juggling points so that you can max every talent available to your class just by investing 1 point into each, and cheesing stat requirements by equipping then unequipping +stat gear. Both are required just to make the melee build viable. Like, it wouldn't actually be a huge problem for Brawlers if Grappling had a Willpower stat requirement, but it would definitely be weird.

[Suslik]

well, using somewhat non-explicit game mechanics can be called a problem. but quick as thought increasing attack speed without any physical talents, shields that absorb 80% dmg passively instead of normal values like 50-70% and a lot talents being simply non-viable(nukes in thermal three, most abilities in charged tree, telekinetic throw, aura spiking, frenzied focus, resonant focus) look like far more serious problems to me at this point.

though i do consider putting willpower version of weapon mastery and armor mastery into some passives. they should not stack with conventional weapon and armor masteries of course.

[Melkhior]

Another idea how change augmentation:

Mindslayer's main weapon use willpower and cunning instead of strenght a dexterity. It allows mindslayer invest general points in weapon mastery and armour mastery (point in Augmentation change stat requirement from strenght to willpower, but value would be same) but it will use only X% of willpower and cunning for weapon. Additrional points will make it better.

So it will works almost exactly same as now, but without need of strenght and cheesing stats.

Thoughts?

[Suslik]

actually initial problem is the str requirement for weapon and armor mastery, not their scaling stat

[Melkhior]

Yes, I know that, but my idea was that if augmantation change strenght requirements of weapon mastery and armour mastery, but if there would be some type of disadvantage then nobody will invest in the augmentation more then 1 point to unlock weapon and armour mastery without investing in strenght and then augmentation would be even more useless then now.

Right now caster mindslayer is much easier to play and hybrid mindslayer is better with mindstar mastery and psiblades then with classic weapon which is sad.